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Why does some people suffer on this earth more than others  and.....

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2007, 04:20:43 PM »

Hello Rodger

A few reasons why evil doctrines flourish is because

1.   "The heart [of carnal unconverted mankind] is DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS, and DESPERATELY WICKED: who can know it" (Jer. 17:9).
2.   "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD..." (Rev. 12:9).
3.   "Because the carnal [natural] mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).


Also another reason is Christendom does not know the Scriptures, Plans, Wisdom, Power or Love of God.

Harryfeat

Ray says : The inconsonant, incongruous, inconsistent teachings of Christendom are bewildering.

I believe that sums up the Jesuit Catholic excerpt you posted. For me it said nothing and meant less. I am an ex Catholic! Called, dragged out of the Harlot errors and false teachings. Ray observes and I agree that Christian heresies are mind-destroying drugs.

For reference to the above excerpts and teachings please read : http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html

Ciy

Your most appropriate contribution of what is taught via Ray, in connection to this discusion, did not go unnoticed or unappreciated. I enjoy reading and revisiting the deep truths that are revealed through our teacher Ray. Thank you.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)


« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 04:25:23 PM by Arcturus »
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2007, 05:39:53 PM »

My children were tortured and sexually abused by a terrible evil man when they were young. I believe that God caused it. I do not believe that God stands by and allows things to happen. That always made me so angry when the church told me that. It hurt me. Why would God just stand by and allow that to happen to my children when I prayed for their protection every night when they went to bed? What kind of a God would just stand by and watch when he had to power to stop it? I found more comfort than anyone could imagine when I came here and read Ray's papers about evil being used for God's purpose. I was raped at 10 years old and abused as a child and I can say that God caused it and can now be thankful that he did.

If I had not gone through all that suffering I would still be in the church today. It was the suffering that led to the bondage of my carnal desires that led me to see my beast. I could not fake being good like the rest of the church members. God showed me my beast and then he began healing me with the truth. He healed my daughter. He is working on my son. We would not know God without our suffering.

I also had the unique experience of watching every single circumstance being used by God to pull up the hidden things within me and expose the secrets that I had buried as a child to survive my abuse. These secrets were causing the bondage to the sin in my life. Even the words that others spoke were caused by God for this purpose in my life. It got to the point that I knew what God was working on by looking at the circumstances in my life. Every few months I would go through a different set of circumstances that were directed at one area of my life that needed to be dealt with. The suffering on top of that was used to break down my defenses that were so strong.

I watched the same thing in my daughter's life. I watched God heal her and teach her truth though her suffering. My son has been an alcoholic for 20 years and I'm watching God work in his life.

My grandson and granddaughter are compassionate, obedient, wonderful children. They suffer with chronic, daily, hard to treat migraines. They are on home hospital and my grandson has not been able to go to school for years. It rips my heart out to watch them suffer. It also brings me comfort to be able to tell them that God is using their suffering also for his purpose and plan in their lives. I would not be alive today if I didn't believe that. I accept that even death is in his plan. Even death by evil actions of others. My husband's suicide was in God's plan.

Knowing that God is in charge of everything keeps the questions away. I don't have to know the answers now. God knows the answers. That does not mean that I don't weep over the suffering and the suffering of others. I do weep and do wrestle to hold on to the faith that God has given me. I have faith that God is sovereign.

I had the unique opportunity to sit with my 9 year old granddaughter on the porch a few months ago. She was at the point when she could listen and understand some truth. I taught her that all will be saved. I taught her that there was no hell. I taught her that God was in control of everything. She had a hard time understanding how God uses evil for our good. I told her Satan and evil were like a power saw. God uses it to cut away our carnal mind.

She came out to the kitchen a couple of nights ago after reading her children's bible before bed and said. I understand how Satan and evil are used as power tools, but why did God make Adam and Eve eat the fruit? I had to weep that she understood God's sovereignty enough to know that he caused them to eat the fruit. That was God working in her little life.

Psalm 23
A psalm of David.
 1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
 2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
       he leads me beside quiet waters,

 3 he restores my soul.
       He guides me in paths of righteousness
       for his name's sake.

 4 Even though I walk
       through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]
       I will fear no evil,
       for you are with me;
       your rod and your staff,
       they comfort me.

 5 You prepare a table before me
       in the presence of my enemies.
       You anoint my head with oil;
       my cup overflows.

 6 Surely goodness and love will follow me
       all the days of my life,
       and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
       forever.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 06:21:03 PM by M.G. »
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2007, 05:55:23 PM »

MG, You are an inspiration to us all.  :)

God's Spirit is clearly in you and it is wonderful hearing how He is working through you in your children and grandchildren.

The 23 Psalm is perfect, and I think I should have it pasted to my bathroom mirror, so that I could read it and be reminded of Gods love and strength every single day.

Love in Christ,
Darren
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2007, 05:57:52 PM »

Hi M.G.

Every time I read a testimony from you and hear of the suffering in your life, my heart goes out to you.  I am blessed from the words of wisdom you share.  

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2007, 05:59:45 PM »

Quote
Harryfeat

Ray says : The inconsonant, incongruous, inconsistent teachings of Christendom are bewildering.

I believe that sums up the Jesuit Catholic excerpt you posted. For me it said nothing and meant less. I am an ex Catholic! Called, dragged out of the Harlot errors and false teachings. Ray observes and I agree that Christian heresies are mind-destroying drugs.

For reference to the above excerpts and teachings please read : http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html

Hey Arcturus,

Thanks for the cite reference.  I am very familiar with the article.  I also share Ray's view on the matter. 

I am too well aware of how heresy can feel so comfortable and easily taint our thinking.  I am also aware that falsely accusing people of spreading heresy even by implication can be such a damaging tool used by those who try to promote themselves rather than the truth.

I respect and accept your opinion that you derived nothing from the quote.  Your opinion is one we obviously do not have in common.  However,  if you would be so kind as to point out the heresy you are implying without outright stating it, I would appreciate it. Further, I will in advance apologize to all who have read the quote, and remove it from my post.  I'll also try to replace it with my own even more inadequate wording as an opinion about faith instead.  For me, it merely stated an opinion about faith better than I was able.  I felt it only fair to give proper authorship credentials.

I too am an ex catholic but I  haven't thrown the baby out with the bath water.  You'll find that Ray still likes his KJV even though it is full of translation error.  He just makes substitutions where necessary. 

I think I have shed the bulk of the heresy and am working on dealing with the rest of my uncertainties.   
I appreciate any such errors I make pointed out to me.  For that I am grateful since I am just a seeker of truth  like the rest of us here.

be blessed
feat
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 06:25:34 PM by Harryfeat »
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2007, 06:08:02 PM »

Hey MG.

Thank you for sharing.  Words are inadequate to share my empathy with  the grief in your life and your family's lives.  I know something of it first hand. Sharing it with others has been too difficult.  You are truly an inspiration to us all.

be blessed
feat
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2007, 06:12:12 PM »

MG
That is a great testimony and so well said.  Anyone who doubts God's sovereignty and that He is causing everything to happen exactly like it is happening for His good purpose should read your testimony over and over.  
Anyone feeling sorry for themselves should take a lesson from your testimony.  
Anyone feeling that they are down and out with no hope left should read your testimony.  
And anyone that believes that they should raise their children in church so that they too can come out of Bablyon should read your testimony. (It was the children that were raised in the wilderness that went into the promise land with Joshua and Caleb.  Their parents that tried to come out of Egypt and could not get in out of their minds, died in the desert)
Thanks for the encouragement.
CIY
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2007, 06:19:09 PM »

One other quickie.
I work in marketing and we were speaking yesterday about advertising dollars and how best they can be spent.  We all agreed that advertising in the media can make someone aware of the product, but by far the best way to get faithful customers were for them to have a great experience with the product.  Then they know themselves the truth of what you are trying to get across in an ad.
This goes to what MG's testimony is an example of and how God's plan plays out. 
That is why we have suffering so we can have the experience and will then know in our hearts.  God puts his plan in everything so that when we really have the eyes to see.  We see.
CIY
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2007, 06:25:12 PM »

Beautiful words of faith and courage MG.

Thank you,

Joe
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2007, 07:21:52 PM »



Feat you observe: Thanks for the cite reference.  I am very familiar with the article.  I also share Ray's view on the matter.

Which view might that be? Certainly not Ray's view that : The inconsonant, incongruous, inconsistent teachings of Christendom are bewildering. That view, for me, fits your Jesuit heretic Catholics writing to the letter. Do you think Ray is falsely accusing people of spreading heresy? Do you think Ray is trying to promote himself rather than the truth? Do you think Ray follows and respects and agrees with the teachings of any Catholic Jesuit which hold the highest rank and order next to the Pope in the entire Christian dome of deception?

Jesus Christ IS the Truth. We do not have to borrow from the wisdom of the world its foolishness. If we want to copy the wisdom of the world or promote the teachings coming out of Babylon then we are not following the Truth and neither can we say we are the same as others who are genuinely being dragged away from the deceptions and false teachings of the harlot blasphemous devious divisive Mother of Blasphemies, to follow Christ. What a wrong to them who are suffering their cross to carry it and follow and do as Christ did, and that is to speak the truth with no desire for approval, following or agreement.


MG

Your testimony glorifies Christ. It reminds me of these two scriptures :

John 17 : 20 Neither for these alone do I pray, but also for all those who will ever come to believe in Me through their word and teaching.

Rev 12:11 And they have overcome him by means of the blood of the Lamb and by the utterance of their testimony, for they did not love and cling to life even when faced with death.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

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Shmeggly

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #90 on: August 03, 2007, 07:29:53 PM »

MG: You've lived exactly what I was describing....and I appreciate your openess and willingness to share what happened.

I still am not sure why it's better that God caused the suffering rather than allowed it.  Maybe I'm just a "stunned puppy!"  :)  But one thing I do know, that if you can have the attitude you do, having gone through what you have....all I can say it "wow".  Hopefully I can one day see things like you do, and not be so blind.  I still have a hard time with explaining it to someone....but like I said you've lived it, and you can still see God.  I hope this makes sense to people reading it....

ciy:  as far as people feeling sorry for themselves and taking hope, just remember everyone is different, and everybody reacts differently to circumstances.  Some will handle things like what MG has gone through and take hope, others will not. 

And according to all this, God is causing even their reactions, so it's all according to plan. 
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2007, 09:06:07 PM »

Hey Acturus you stated

Quote
Do you think Ray is falsely accusing people of spreading heresy? Do you think Ray is trying to promote himself rather than the truth? Do you think Ray follows and respects and agrees with the teachings of any Catholic Jesuit which hold the highest rank and order next to the Pope in the entire Christian dome of deception?

I will gladly answer your questions but I would very much like a more  direct response to my prior without repeating the posturing please.

Firstly, I haven't read or heard anything Ray has said where I believed he felt he was falsely accusing people of spreading heresy.  I have no reason to believe that Ray's motives are not driven by promoting the truth.  As to your third question, though I do not know the degree to which he respects others, there is no doubt in my mind that he does not tolerate heresy from any source. I believe that Ray would have stated what heresy he might have found in that quote and given his support for his answer.  All you have done thus far is give your general view without specifics. Fourthly, I am disappointed by the implications you are making by even asking me these questions when I have already stated I agree with Ray's views. 

Which brings me to my question.  What part of the quote do you specifically see as heresy or that is in any way against what Ray teaches?  If I had recognized either,  I wouldn't have posted it.  You have me at a disadvantage since I don't know what heresy has been given.  The quote in my opinion is just a view of the acceptance through faith that Gods will is for our good.   

If your only answer is that we are not to accept anything, regardless of the truth from those in babylon, I understand your stance. I am not quite sure that is exactly what Ray is saying to us, although he has wisely cautioned us to be very wary and be like the Bereans in those matters.  However.  I am hoping that you can help me with this and possibly anyone else, who, like me,  doesn't see the heresy that you see in the words of the quote. The lesson could be  beneficial and edifying for all.

be blessed
feat

« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 09:09:04 PM by Harryfeat »
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Falconn003

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2007, 11:04:30 PM »

What"s this !    What is this !!    :o  :o

The   "Take out the "i", "Me" comedy skit got deleted. That was a classic one.  :D ;D

I had people lining up to read it cause they did not believe it was really ever posted......whimper....now like the big-foot hoax it will become legend. tsk........tsk....... ;)

green eggs and ham
Rodger

Ps  upset me.....lol by far you made my week...... :D  ;D  :D  " take the " i " and " me "  out of yadda yadda yadda....." a classic. ;D :D
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 05:37:20 AM by Falconn003 »
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DuluthGA

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2007, 01:18:21 AM »

feat.... I liked and appreciated your quote for what it was worth straight forward and saw no heresy.  I too am interested in Arc's point on this matter.

I almost (but not quite ;D) am hesitant to not share the following piece of someone else's work that I RELATE TO.... and think speaks well for me... and I am now counting down the timing to perhaps it being called heresy as well>>  :o  

 
From the chaperter/section on "The Church in the New Testament."
 
"... The flesh cleaves to the Bible and prides itself on being biblical.  The flesh likes to show a radically biblical face and by its exclusiveness is able to impress and win approval.  But God never identifies Himself with anything coming from the flesh, no matter how biblical it is.  [May I, Janice, personally add, and it is of no matter if it comes from L. Ray Smith either.]  This is critically important when we begin to address ourselves to restoring the New Testament witness of Christ and His church."
 
I tend to agree with him. 

feat, I also tend to agree with you.  :)

With love, Janice
Keep your LAMP LIT.


« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 12:28:55 PM by hillsbororiver »
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ez2u

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2007, 05:37:32 AM »

roger  why are you acting to ugly  how old are you?  weather you are right or wrong  I do not care quit acting like a brat.  Just accept if some one disagree's with you so waht not the end of your world and God works these situations out what are you accomblishing by your words  personelly it discredits you by your smart mouth and what you said is gone because of your ugliness.  Just stop  its alright if other people have a bad day too or what ever  Even if that other person did rejected what you said  he isn;t God and either are you just relax  its okay,  Peggy
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ez2u

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #95 on: August 04, 2007, 06:05:43 AM »

M G thank for sharing   I fee now something is being said that I might beable to learn from  I did appreciate the comfort and love from all that shared  but M G is saying something here I need to understand better.What you suffer did what  to make you say it was good for me to go through this.  what happen  to make you say this what really happen?  please don't tell me a patent answer reach inside  thank you please understand I just need to know  In Jesus  peggy
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Shmeggly

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #96 on: August 04, 2007, 06:17:41 AM »

This is probably one of the most misunderstood, and difficult things to understand in all of  Christendom (did I say that last word right?)  

10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.

God is love.  When he is compared to a father, and how much better a father than us (giving good gifts,etc.)  I have a hard time with Him causing pain and suffering.  I would not torture her to teach her a lesson.  I would discipline her, but in context of the situation.  To me it's like hell....it doesn't fit.  Call me crazy, and it's 3 in the morning....
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #97 on: August 04, 2007, 09:42:29 AM »

Feat

Here is the article you posted and challenge me with. I am sure Ray could do a MUCH better job of dissecting its mellifluous mush and exposing and expelling the dogma and false posturing that is so transparent in the except. I have kept the excerpt in green as you originally posted for ease of reference for others who are visiting this discussion.

The science of theology is full of theories

Doesn't waste much time! Straight for the jugular! When did theology become a SCIENCE? When did SCIENCE become full of THEORIES? This is complete square circles. Can anyone see the nonsense yet?


THEORIES….

Just what is a theory? A theory is a speculation. It is conjecture without knowing the complete facts. It is a tentative generalization of which the validity has to still be proved…like reincarnation, the Trinity, Tithing, Free Will, evolution etc…These are ALL theories based on half truths, incomplete facts and generalizations wining popular approval and a multitude of followers.

....the fullness of these theories explain the wonders of the soul according to its capacity.

Well maybe this is correct for those souls who embrace error and fiction but it is not accurate in alluding to MY SOUL and neither is it accurate regarding Paul's soul or Timothy's soul, or the souls of the like minded with Christ who know and understand that scoffers, mockers will come in the last days with scoffing, false and cunning arguments who beguile and lure, misinterpret and twist and misconstrue the Word of God.


One may be conversant with all these speculations, speak and write
   about them admirably, instruct others and guide souls;



and guide souls….AND GUIDE SOULS…who guides souls? The ones conversant with speculations? Do they guide souls? Who is guiding your soul. The teachings of Christ or the irreverent babble and godless chatter of vain and empty and worldly phrases and subtleties and contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination. 1 Tim 6:20

...yet, if these theories are only in the mind,

IF...IF these theories are only in the mind...OF COURSE THEORIES ARE ONLY IN THE BLIND MIND...a theory by definition IS ONLY IN THE MIND BECAUSE IT IS INSUFFICIENT, INCOMPLETE AND YET TO BE PROVED.  So YES, those who sport with such theories and conjecture are indeed as ones compared to those without knowledge not of theories but of God and His Christ who is the way the Truth and the Life. But, NOTICE, THIS IS NOT what the author says. Read it carefully. The author says that the ones conversant with speculations, speak and write about them admirably, instruct others and guide souls but THEY ARE without any knowledge of what they speak about…NOW WHY DOES THE AUTHOR MAKE THIS CONNECTION? Which is true by the way but not for the reason given! Here is the clincher…HERE IS THE REASON....

because they have not received the meaning of the designs of God. They do not do Gods will

HELLO. Huston I think we have a problem!…THEY do not do God's Will AND FOR THAT REASON

they are as sick physicians compared to simple people in perfect health.

Here is the Plan of God. That we ALL GO AGAINST HIS WILL FOR NON...NON ARE PERFECT EXCEPT CHRIST. So lets be more direct..….fasten your seat belt…


the faithful soul, the simplicity producing this divine state…

What produces divine state? SIMPLICITY? What a foolish notion! What a lie! GRACE is the DIVINE ACTION ON OUR HEARTS THAT COMES FROM GOD! This divine truth was revealed via Ray Smith in one of his audios. Kat no doubt will have the details at her finger tips for those interested to persue this study and access this teaching.

By GRACE we are saved by faith...that faith that is Christs gift,domain and authority. The Divine state is Christ who is NOT

the unknowing simpleton who neither knows nor wishes to know anything about medicine.

Now we are getting into nothing short of blasphemy! Anyone still want to go with this heresy? Anyone still advocating the excerpt has any truth in it?

Jesus Christ IS THE MEDICINE.

 The designs of God and his divine will accepted by a faithful soul
   with simplicity produces this divine state in it without its knowledge, just
   as a medicine taken obediently will produce health, although the sick person
   neither knows nor wishes to know anything about medicine.


What a sick and depraved conclusion based on error with no support of the Truth of Gods word or the power of Gods Sovereignty!

   ABANDONMENT TO DIVINE PROVIDENCE
   - by Jean Pierre de Caussade, S.J.


In just  few words THEORY by Jean Pierre de Caussade SJ captures a VAST SWAMP OF QUICK SAND AND CORRUPT mellifluous mush.

Mellifluous – sounds or utterances smooth or honeyed sweet.

Mush – cloying sentimentality

Cloy – to make weary or cause weariness through an excess of something sweet. a) to nail from Medieval Latin – a nail. b) to obstruct.

Theory is a tentative generalization of which the validity has to be proved. Such examples as the writing of Jean Pierre de Caussade, S.J. are straw ideas written to gain approval by default and a following by high sounding ideology that lacks in wisdom, knowledge and love for the Words of God. It is a tentative man made fiction.

Tentative – provisional, experimental, conjectural, uncertain

Generalize – to change from a localized infection or condition to a systemic one.

Systemic – of a poison, disease affecting the entire body.

That excerpt, to be more direct, is poison, wearisome conjecture.

Conjecture – the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence; guess

I notice Feat that you falsely accuse me of posturing which by the way is a false or affected attitude more properly attributed to your author of that septic tank of lies and deceits. For your information my attitude, that is an indication of my view or disposition especially as it indicated allegiance, is neither false, or artificial to impress others.

Your transparent challenge that I attempt to respond as Ray can I should take that as a compliment as Christ has made Ray a unique, precious vessel of honour, truths and revelations of which I find NON from your teacher the Jesuit who perfects posturing with an infection of bad ideas, false teaching, heresy and blasphemy against the Truths and Teachers of Christ.

Janice you observe that : [May I, Janice, personally add, and it is of no matter if it comes from L. Ray Smith either.]  This is critically important when we begin to address ourselves to restoring the New Testament witness of Christ and His church."

That is a false teaching that WE are restoring the New Testament witness of Christ and His Church. It is the Spirit of Christ who is the witness not us!

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in MY NAME (Ref to Ray Smiths teachings to discover what My Name means) He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I HAVE SAID TO YOU. (That being whatsoever CHRIST HAS SAID and not what Jesuit…what’s his name said or says or believes or postures.)

Your comment about Ray Smith is off cue Janice, and you should be warned that 24. ANYONE (no respect or of persons here...or for false teachers, heresy or blasphemy or agreements with such…..or agreements or agendas to make feel good sweet mush the replacement theory for Christ’s Spirit of TRUTH) who  does not really love ME, does not OBSERVE AND OBEY MY TEAHCHING. And the teaching which you hear and heed is NOT MINE ( but is the worldly wisdom of heretics and false prophets and blind guides) but from the Father Who sent Me.

Ray Smith teaches Christ’s Mind through the Spirit of Christ that reveals the Mind, Spirit and Truth of Christ. Christ HIMSELF has given Ray Smith as a Teacher to US.

Eph 4 : 10 HE Who descended is the very same as He Who also has ascended high above the heavens, that He might fill all things. 11. And HIS gifts, He Himself appointed and gave men to US, some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and TEACHERS.

These are GIFTS to US. Be cautioned. Don’t look the gift horse in the mouth!

I see one point you make in your post Rodger. You very astutely use the term ffertilizer to describe GAFF but then again fertilizer is manure used to increase productivity. Good one Rodger! We need less false teaching and more truth to grow productively into the image and likeness of Christ. Ray is an exemplary example!

Peggy

You call my friend Rodger  ugly,  a brat, a smart mouth and then you tell him to relax its okay! 

Such hostile persecution wins more rewards for Rodger in heaven! So go ahead. Gnash your teeth or STOP IMMEDIATELY and review what and who you are accusing!

Incidentally Feat,

Ray also gets sludge served up to him to dissect for truth and he says he has got better things to do. So, I would like to imitate my teacher. So for the record let it be known that I prefer to shut my mind against and have nothing to do with trifling, ill-informed, un edifying, stupid controversies over ignorant questionings as they foster only strife and cultivate and breed quarrels. 2 Tim 2:23

Hope that is direct enough and that others saw some light!

Please revisit and reacquaint yourself with : http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html and http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 10:48:38 AM by Arcturus »
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #98 on: August 04, 2007, 12:26:25 PM »

feat.... I liked and appreciated your quote for what it was worth straight forward and saw no heresy.  I too am interested in Arc's point on this matter.

I almost (but not quite ;D) am hesitant to not share the following piece of someone else's work that I RELATE TO.... and think speaks well for me... and I am now counting down the timing to perhaps it being called heresy as well>>  :o  

 
From the chaperter/section on "The Church in the New Testament."
 
"... The flesh cleaves to the Bible and prides itself on being biblical.  The flesh likes to show a radically biblical face and by its exclusiveness is able to impress and win approval.  But God never identifies Himself with anything coming from the flesh, no matter how biblical it is.  [May I, Janice, personally add, and it is of no matter if it comes from L. Ray Smith either.]  This is critically important when we begin to address ourselves to restoring the New Testament witness of Christ and His church."
 
I tend to agree with him. 

feat, I also tend to agree with you.  :)

With love, Janice
Keep your LAMP LIT.




Hi Janice,

It is not our practice to post links to teachings and/or book, CD, DVD sales.

Please do not be offended but if we were to start allowing this we would become nothing more than one more christian debate site.

I hope you understand.

His Peace to you,

Joe


From the Forum Rules; http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?board=2.0


THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS

No preaching (including preaching via links).
Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching.  Links are allowed if a site it just for fun or informational, ie, you tube, google translator, Esword, etc.



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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Suffering
« Reply #99 on: August 04, 2007, 01:23:15 PM »


God is love.  When he is compared to a father, and how much better a father than us (giving good gifts,etc.)  I have a hard time with Him causing pain and suffering.  I would not torture her to teach her a lesson.  I would discipline her, but in context of the situation.  To me it's like hell....it doesn't fit.  Call me crazy, and it's 3 in the morning....


Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Our purpose here is not to have our flesh satisfied and our carnal desires fulfilled, it is to lose and shed these things through the Spirit of Christ, to submit to the Father's will in faith and with trust. Please look at the examples in scripture, both in the OT and NT. If we rely on our own reasoning and feelings we will not grow spiritually.

Your example of torturing fits more in line with what the churches (throw in never ending torture to give it real weight) teach than with anything Ray has written about.

Here is an example;


 
Rom. 11 explains God's process is saving all Israel and all the Gentiles. It is true that there is coming judgment and chastisement on this wicked people of this world, but that chastisement and judgment is to correct them, not to torture them, and all such judgments COME TO AN END.  The words "forever" and "everlasting" and "eternal" are nowhere found in the original manuscripts from which our modern language bibles have been translated.  See the first ten pages of my letter to John Hagee for absolute proof of this.

God will not torture you, Liam, or ANYONE ELSE, not even Hitler or Saddam Hussein (or his two wretched sons), for all eternity. That is UNSCRIPTURAL and THAT IS INSANE! Mind you, God WILL chastise ALL OF HIS CHILDREN, and correct them to think, and do, and live, right! And sometimes times God spanks very hard, but He does not TORTURE for all ETERNITY. That is MAD! That is satanic beyond description! God is love, and He will be merciful to His creatures. Be SURE you real all of the installments in my paper on "The lake of fire" that appears on my site in monthly installments.

Please read the articles.....

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html




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