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[iris]

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Is this saying that the end of the world started when Christ died?
What are your thoughts on this?


Iris

[lilitalienboi16]

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Is this saying that the end of the world started when Christ died?
What are your thoughts on this?


Iris

Perhaps, i'm not entirely sure but i believe that when Christ came that it is possible it was the beginning of the end, of this age. As in it started or marked the beginning of the end of the age. It could be possible. Whats interesting is this;

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHT DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36).

Perhaps since the 7th day God rested, then the 8th is the day that is actualy when God becomes all and all. Since we are currently RESTING IN CHRIST;

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

Now perhaps we are in the 7th day, i guess spiritualy speaking because we REST in CHRIST as GOD RESTED, and so it is the 'end of the age' and after that, on the 8th day is when God will bring the harvest and judgement upon all humanity.

I mean this is speculation offcourse, i could be WAY OFF, but i thought those were interesting connections. Perhaps someone can ask ray?

Well feel free to add, disagree/agree, whichever.

God bless,

Alex

[Harryfeat]

Hey Iris,

I posted the ISV version of the bible translations here because the words seemed to flow a little better for my understanding

Heb 9:24  For Christ did not go into a sanctuary made by human hands and just a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in God's presence on our behalf.
Heb 9:25  Nor did he go into heaven to sacrifice himself again and again, the way the high priest goes into the Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.
Heb 9:26  Then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now, at the end of the ages, he has appeared once for all to remove sin by his sacrifice.
Heb 9:27  Indeed, just as people are appointed to die once and after that to be judged,
Heb 9:28  so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people. And he will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly wait for him.

Reading verse 26 with the rest gave me a much better perspective on it.

feat

[DuluthGA]

That's a new and interesting insight for me, Alex. 

There is one N.T. verse that sheds some light on this for me.  To me, it indicates that from the life of Jesus on this earth onward, and implied until He returns, are the "last days."

Heb 1: 2   in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; [YLT]

Together with Hebrews 9: 26 makes two witnesses on this! 

Have a great night!
Janice

[gmik]

Hi all,

Heb. 9:28...salvation to those who eagerly await Him.


Hmmm.....that could be an argument that only those who eagerly await Him get salvation. Those that died in unbelief weren't eagerly awaiting Him.

Thoughts???

[carol70]

This is why judgment follows death, as it says in verse 27, to deal with the unbelievers.  So, once all go through judgment I expect all will eagerly await Him for salvation!  That's kinda how I see it.

[Kat]

Hi Gene and Carol,

Now you've got think thinking on this scripture 

Heb 9:28  so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.(NKJV)

The part of this verse that says "apart from sin," this could only be speaking of the elect.

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
v. 2  But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me (all the elect) free from the law of sin and death.
v. 3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh;
v. 4  so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Only the elect that are awaiting and will receive salvation at His appearing.

Col 3:1  If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
v. 2  Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
v. 3  For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
v. 4  When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Kat

Would you please refer me to the translation you are using where you refer:

Heb 9:28  so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, for salvation.(NKJV)

The part of this verse that says "apart from sin," this could only be speaking of the elect.

My translation says : Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are eagerly, constantly, and patiently waiting for and expecting Him. (Amplified)

I would be interested to see which translation or part of "this verse" as you indicate,  says "apart from sin"...

Thank you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus,

That was strange I had cut and paste instead of Copy and paste that phrase, that why it was missing.

New King James Version
Heb 9:28  so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

It's also the Concordant Literal Version

Heb 9:28 thus Christ also, being offered once for the bearing of the sins of many, will be seen a second time, by those awaiting Him, apart from sin, for salvation, through faith."

Thanks for catching it, I'll go fix it 

meercy, peace and love
Kat

[iris]

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts. It has given me a lot to think about and to study over.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Is this saying that the end of the world started when Christ died?
What are your thoughts on this?


Iris

Perhaps, i'm not entirely sure but i believe that when Christ came that it is possible it was the beginning of the end, of this age. As in it started or marked the beginning of the end of the age. It could be possible. Whats interesting is this;

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHT DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36).

Perhaps since the 7th day God rested, then the 8th is the day that is actualy when God becomes all and all. Since we are currently RESTING IN CHRIST;

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

Now perhaps we are in the 7th day, i guess spiritualy speaking because we REST in CHRIST as GOD RESTED, and so it is the 'end of the age' and after that, on the 8th day is when God will bring the harvest and judgement upon all humanity.

I mean this is speculation offcourse, i could be WAY OFF, but i thought those were interesting connections. Perhaps someone can ask ray?

Well feel free to add, disagree/agree, whichever.

God bless,

Alex

May the 8th day be only a breath away!!!

Peace and Love
Iris

[hillsbororiver]

Great thread Iris!

Last days, end times, etc. could very well describe the beginning of the end of the (old) carnal man (the beast within) and the conception of the (new) spiritual man in Christ. This (I believe) is the "dying to the flesh" experienced by His people in every generation since the resurrection.

The beginning of the end of this age which upon its closing will usher in the Judgment and the work of Christ and His Elect to bring about the salvation of all men. 

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe 

[iris]

Thanks Joe,

I think we're all looking forward to the new age to come. And we know that ALL will be saved. If not in the first resurrection, then in the second. How wonderful is that? What a loving God!!!


Peace and Love
Iris

[lilitalienboi16]

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts. It has given me a lot to think about and to study over.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Is this saying that the end of the world started when Christ died?
What are your thoughts on this?


Iris

Perhaps, i'm not entirely sure but i believe that when Christ came that it is possible it was the beginning of the end, of this age. As in it started or marked the beginning of the end of the age. It could be possible. Whats interesting is this;

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHT DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36).

Perhaps since the 7th day God rested, then the 8th is the day that is actualy when God becomes all and all. Since we are currently RESTING IN CHRIST;

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

Now perhaps we are in the 7th day, i guess spiritualy speaking because we REST in CHRIST as GOD RESTED, and so it is the 'end of the age' and after that, on the 8th day is when God will bring the harvest and judgement upon all humanity.

I mean this is speculation offcourse, i could be WAY OFF, but i thought those were interesting connections. Perhaps someone can ask ray?

Well feel free to add, disagree/agree, whichever.

God bless,

Alex

May the 8th day be only a breath away!!!

Peace and Love
Iris

Haha amen, i don't know how scripturaly sound the idea is, only God knows lol, but nevertheless, LET THE KINGDOM BE AT HAND!! IN ALL OF US =]

[M_Oliver]

Last days, end times, etc. could very well describe the beginning of the end of the (old) carnal man (the beast within) and the conception of the (new) spiritual man in Christ. This (I believe) is the "dying to the flesh" experienced by His people in every generation since the resurrection.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe 

Joe,

Your timing with this statement is marvelous!  This morning I started to try and relearn Matthew 24 in a spiritual sense rather than the end-time preachers physical sense.  The way you said that opened up another door for me.  Thank you!!

Mark

[hillsbororiver]

You are welcome Mark!

It always bothered me (but I did not know why) about this end time scenario that only seemed applicable to the very last generation on earth, it seemed stupid when I meditated on it. I mean you have the generation of Christ and the apostles and the generation of the end timers but everyone else (scores of generations) in between count for nothing? We (and every generation) has lived in (our own personal) last days/end times.

Ray's articles about the beast within and Revelation symbolism that is applicable to every called (and chosen) person who has lived since the New Covenant was established (His resurrection) really has made the scriptures relevent, real and alive to me, now I can see this theme throughout the pages of His Word.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Rene]

Hi all,

Heb. 9:28...salvation to those who eagerly await Him.


Hmmm.....that could be an argument that only those who eagerly await Him get salvation. Those that died in unbelief weren't eagerly awaiting Him.

Thoughts???

Hi Gena,

Take a look at these scriptures:

Romans 8:19 - "For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God." (ESV)

Another translation:

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. (NKJV)

Romans 8:22 - "For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now."

Romans 8:23 - "And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons..."

It seems to me everyone therefore would qualify as "eagerly waiting."  It is a spiritual concept with a spiritual fulfillment.  Those who are spiritually "blind" aren't even aware they are "eagerly waiting" for the revelation of Jesus Christ and His Elect !  Ultimately, ALL will be saved.

Rene'   

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello G

You say : Those that died in unbelief weren't eagerly awaiting Him.

What about those who died in belief and were eagerly awaiting Him from the OT? We know that they will go to the LOF for they were not given the promises that we have in the new and better covenant that Christ brought us.

What about those who die after a quickie 10 second sinners prayer and eager motivation to by pass a life time of denial of Christ and refusal to obey what He says? We know they will not surely receive the first Resurrection.

I like what you observe Iris, And we know that ALL will be saved. If not in the first resurrection, then in the second. How wonderful is that? What a loving God!!!

Amen to that!

I believe those who are eagerly waiting for Him are those who know, follow and love Him. They are sharing His cross and can not wait to share their intimate moments with Him who is able to understand, sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities like no other human on the face of this earth because of what He has suffered for us all.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[humblebob]

Hi, I've wondered the same thing about the dispensational view of Romans 11.26, "And so all Israel will be saved." The view is that Romans 11.26 is to be taken literally of natural Israel. So that in some future period, all the citizens of natural Israel, the nation, will be saved, at some undetermined future point in time. If this is true, then from the time Paul wrote this to the present, about 50 generations of Israel's citizens will have come and gone, and we could be looking at dozens more generations of natural Israelites bypassed by this prophecy before its future fulfilllment.

So whenever the prophecy is fulfilled for natural Israel, only a small fraction of natural Jewish citizens would be affected. I've wondered why Paul would take great pains to announce a major prophecy that would leave such a large majority of Israel's inhabitants unaffected.  I think there are probably better ways to understand this passage.

[enarchay]

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Is this saying that the end of the world started when Christ died?
What are your thoughts on this?


Iris

The Greek word translated "world" is aion, meaning "age." It is also important to notice that the Greek word translated "foundation," katabole, originating from the Greek word kataballo ("to throw down, cast down"), is better translated as "down-casting." In other words, God foreknew the coming of the Messiah before the fall of Adam, the "down-casting" of the kosmos. Christ appeared at the end of the age to suffer at the climax of Israel's history that will lead into a new age with a New Covenant ruled by the Messiah, Jesus.

[enarchay]

Hi, I've wondered the same thing about the dispensational view of Romans 11.26, "And so all Israel will be saved." The view is that Romans 11.26 is to be taken literally of natural Israel. So that in some future period, all the citizens of natural Israel, the nation, will be saved, at some undetermined future point in time. If this is true, then from the time Paul wrote this to the present, about 50 generations of Israel's citizens will have come and gone, and we could be looking at dozens more generations of natural Israelites bypassed by this prophecy before its future fulfilllment.

So whenever the prophecy is fulfilled for natural Israel, only a small fraction of natural Jewish citizens would be affected. I've wondered why Paul would take great pains to announce a major prophecy that would leave such a large majority of Israel's inhabitants unaffected.  I think there are probably better ways to understand this passage.

It is important to notice that Paul says the branches cut-off will not be grafted back in unless they repent. If they repent they will be grafted back in. That's a big if, though. The "all Israel" that was to be saved was the remnant of the repentant, Messiah following people of God counted as Abraham's seed through faith, including both Jews and Gentiles (for Gentiles are grafted into Israel). I believe this refers to the coming judgment upon Jerusalem in A.D. 70 when the Romans slaughter thousands of Jews and destroy the Temple. The “all Israel” that is saved consists of those that listen to Christ’s words and flee Jerusalem when they see signs of a coming judgment (i.e. Mar 13:14).

Paul's point is that God still loves the Israelites very much and he will not abandon them. Yet, those that are cut-off from the tree of Israel, though they be Israelites according to the flesh, are not counted for the seed of Abraham, and no longer counted as God's chosen people (according to the Spirit, not flesh), and therefore are not "saved." He informs us not to be haughty, because the cut-off branches can easily be grafted back in if they repent. Though many according to the flesh were to be slain by the Romans, a small remnant according to the Spirit and faith were to survive—and that remnant is not merely Gentiles, but also Jews; the Apostles and many other followers were indeed Jews, so God was not completely abandoning Israel according to the flesh, lest Gentiles have reason to boast.