> General Discussions
Hebrews 9:26
enarchay:
--- Quote from: Craig on July 30, 2007, 01:45:02 PM ---
--- Quote ---You are missing the fact Paul says unless Israel repents, they will remain cut-off. The "all Israel" consists of the repentant; the ones still a part of the tree, both Jews and Gentiles.
--- End quote ---
You are letting a statement of fact become a statement of limitation.
Let's say I live on an island with one bridge in. To far to swim, no boats, planes, etc. No other way to get to me. I tell you I am going to bring all to this island and they won't get here until they go across my bridge.
I've stated a fact that I will bring all here and also the limitation that they will eventually have to cross the bridge to get there. But the fact remains, I will bring all here.
Craig
--- End quote ---
But Paul is not talking about "all Israel" according to the flesh. Re-read the entire chapter! Those according to the flesh who disobey God are CUT-OFF FROM ISRAEL. That means they are no longer Israelites, and no longer included in the "all Israel."
Does this mean they will not be saved through the lake of fire? No. It just means they will not be saved from national judgment (A.D. 70) if they continue to walk in disbelief.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: enarchay on July 30, 2007, 01:41:22 PM ---
--- Quote ---Nitemare you are also missing the point that paul says 'ALL ISREAL.'
--- End quote ---
But Jews according to the flesh who do not follow the Messiah are no longer part of Israel, they are cut-off. "All Israel" refers to those counted for the seed of Abraham according to faith, not the flesh. You need to read that entire chapter in Romans to see what Imean.
--- Quote ---Does ALL not mean ALL to you?
--- End quote ---
"All Israel" means all Israel, just in a different way than Israelites could have ever expected.
--- Quote ---Nitemare, since when does getting kicked out of Eden equate to a FALL? A FALL suggests FALLING FROM A POSITION OF GREATER HEIGHT. Can YOU PROVE man was in a position that was HIGHER prior to bieng kicked out of eden?
--- End quote ---
They were in a higher position. They were in a garden where the lion laid down with the lamb, where peace existed, and where the tree of life remained. If they had not sinned, they would have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever. By sinning, they fell to a lower position: they were forbidden excess to the tree, had to work the end of their lives for food, and women had to give birth in pain.
--- End quote ---
I know that they are cut off now, but read what paul says;
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
WHAT SHALL THE RECIEVING OF THEM BE? [You are trying to tell me they will NOT be recieved. THEN THERE IS NO RESSURECTION.]
LIFE FROM THE DEAD.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The very reason we are given grace is because they are in UNBELIEF.
Romans 11:30 as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
I highly suggest nitemare you reconsider what you are thinking.
You have yet to answer my question.
Do they repent because of there own free will?
In Christ,
Alex
Craig:
--- Quote ---The destruction of the Temple was a sign that God would and was dwelling among his people in a new and better way.
--- End quote ---
I'll give you that could be considered a sign, but the destruction of the temple (Christ) that happened around 38 years earlier was the start of the new age.
Craig
enarchay:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 30, 2007, 01:48:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: enarchay on July 30, 2007, 01:41:22 PM ---
--- Quote ---Nitemare you are also missing the point that paul says 'ALL ISREAL.'
--- End quote ---
But Jews according to the flesh who do not follow the Messiah are no longer part of Israel, they are cut-off. "All Israel" refers to those counted for the seed of Abraham according to faith, not the flesh. You need to read that entire chapter in Romans to see what Imean.
--- Quote ---Does ALL not mean ALL to you?
--- End quote ---
"All Israel" means all Israel, just in a different way than Israelites could have ever expected.
--- Quote ---Nitemare, since when does getting kicked out of Eden equate to a FALL? A FALL suggests FALLING FROM A POSITION OF GREATER HEIGHT. Can YOU PROVE man was in a position that was HIGHER prior to bieng kicked out of eden?
--- End quote ---
They were in a higher position. They were in a garden where the lion laid down with the lamb, where peace existed, and where the tree of life remained. If they had not sinned, they would have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever. By sinning, they fell to a lower position: they were forbidden excess to the tree, had to work the end of their lives for food, and women had to give birth in pain.
--- End quote ---
I know that they are cut off now, but read what paul says;
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
WHAT SHALL THE RECIEVING OF THEM BE? [You are trying to tell me they will NOT be recieved. THEN THERE IS NO RESSURECTION.]
LIFE FROM THE DEAD.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The very reason we are given grace is because they are in UNBELIEF.
Romans 11:30 as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
I highly suggest nitemare you reconsider what you are thinking.
You have yet to answer my question.
Do they repent because of there own free will?
In Christ,
Alex
--- End quote ---
Just because I am saying those who do not follow the Messiah are cut-off, does not mean I am saying that one day they will not be, some how, re-grafted in, as the Gentiles were. But that is way future.
enarchay:
--- Quote from: Craig on July 30, 2007, 01:48:34 PM ---
--- Quote ---The destruction of the Temple was a sign that God would and was dwelling among his people in a new and better way.
--- End quote ---
I'll give you that could be considered a sign, but the destruction of the temple (Christ) that happened around 38 years earlier was the start of the new age.
Craig
--- End quote ---
Yeah something like that.
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