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Author Topic: Spiritual healings  (Read 10692 times)

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mari_et_pere

  • Guest
Spiritual healings
« on: July 30, 2007, 11:33:09 AM »

What do you all think? Someone I know witnessed some healings Sunday morning. I've always been skeptical but I don't know.........from what they told me it was pretty awesome.

Matt
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seminole

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 12:12:09 PM »

I don't know Matt. God can heal in many ways and I believe that God is bigger than we can even imagine. It makes sense to me that if He created the wonders of all we know He can heal people today. I don't think the people who say if you send me a seed of "X amount of money" I will send you an anointed cloth that will bring healing. i think that thing is just a money maker.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 12:55:05 PM »


Hi Matt,

The scriptures warn of these type things.

2Thes 2:9  The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
v. 10  and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
v. 11  Therefore God sends(by the means of Satan) them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
v. 12  in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Mark 13:22  For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
v. 23  But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

I think it is just a part of the deception that Satan works in the church, to be very convincing.

Rev 18:23  And the light of a lamp will never more shine at all in you. And the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride will never more be heard at all in you. For your merchants were the great ones of the earth; for by your sorceries all nations were deceived.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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Craig

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Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 01:02:39 PM »

Matt, I would have to be there to form any opinion.

God can heal who and when he wishes.  I believe Ray has said he has witnessed healings himself.

But it is all of God, and if it comes from Babylon, I am skeptical.

Craig
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2007, 01:26:44 PM »

Time will tell if they got healed or not.  Time is how to tell if a prophet/prophecy comes to pass.

But personally, I do believe God heals today, not necessarily at an altar call, but He certainly can.

I have had a couple of times where doctors have scheduled surgery for me and after prayer I haven't had to have it.

On the way to church years ago, I mentioned in the car my hands were  hurting and feeling like I was wearing gloves.  At the service they called up anyone who felt like they were wearing gloves....up I went, got laid on of hands, and for years they didn't bother me.  Well, now I do have arthritis startin to show up in my hands.  And no, I don't plan on going to a church to be prayed over. ::) I can pray for myself or ask you guys.

I had a friend who was called forward (he had cancer), prayed over, "slain", yada yada....praised God shouted "Im healed" and then died a few months later.

My friends 5 yr old grandson was prayed over by...sorry....Benny Hinn, HIMSELF :o....and still died of cancer.

God's ways are a mystery, and still, when it is your time, than thats it!

I am reading Acts in the CLNV--it is so exciting!  They did lots of miracles to show the unbelievers.

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2007, 02:26:07 PM »


Hi Matt,

I found this email that goes into this topic of healing.

http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm#miracles ----------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Cindy:

Many assume that the statements that Jesus made to his eleven apostles on the evening of His arrest, were a blanket statement to all believers to follow, for all time. This is not so.

Jesus did do many miracles through His apostles after His death and resurrection. He promised them the gift of the Holy Spirit (Comforter), which would give them faith and power to spread His gospel message.

This came true fifty days later on the Day of Pentecost. The apostles were given the gift of tongues so that they could even speak in foreign languages which none of them had ever studied. They were able to heal the sick. And they even RAISED THE DEAD. Peter and Paul both RAISED THE DEAD.

These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry. Paul said that "tongues would cease" in I Cor. 13. Only "faith, hope [expectation] and charity [love]" were to "NOW remain...."  Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?

Many in the charismatic church try to make a carnival exhibition of such gifts, but I am afraid all they do is deceive.

However, with that said, does God no longer perform miracles or healings? Yes, He does. I have seen and experienced them. Does He always heal? Does He always alleviate our problems and trials? NO. Why should we pray for God to TAKE AWAY all the things that are absolutely NECESSARY FOR OUR FAITH AND PERFECTION?

Don't neglect to ask God for EVERYTHING you feel you should have. But don't be disappointed if God allows you to CONTINUE IN YOUR TRIALS. Sometimes He removes certain trials after a period of time. We do not know when and how or even if God will do this that or the other thing, so we keep praying.  I ask for STRENGTH AND FAITH to face my trials and OVERCOME my flesh. I no longer pray for God to make me HEALTHY, WEALTHY AND WISE, with absolutely no price to pay for such privileges.

This site is an answer to prayer. My understanding of the Scriptures is an answer to prayer. Everything I have is an answer to prayer. I pray for others and many times, GOD ANSWERS MY PRAYERS! But I do NOT always heal the sick through my prayers, I do not make people wealthy through my prayers, and I have NEVER raised the dead through my prayers. So don't stop praying!! And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, thank God for all that you have.

And then, don't WORRY about anything. Phil. 4:6 is a terrible translation in the KJV. Instead of "Be careful in nothing..." it should read:

"DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING..."

God be with you,

Ray

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Oblivion582

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 02:56:43 PM »

I believe in healing. I know that my brother in law had one of his coworkers stopped breathing and was out cold. He prayed over him but nothing happened...but he decided to not give up and I guess "faught the fight of faith", took the man's hand and said "In the name of Jesus, I speak life into you" and he started breathing. I believe that sometimes God heals you, and sometimes he doesn't.

A really interesting look into healing is Henry Wright's book "A More Excellent Way - spiritual roots of disease". He's not a Kenneth Hagin (word of faith) and he's not a Benny Hinn (fall out) and he's not a "name it and claim it" either. Go to Amazon.com and look for A More Excellent Way and there should be a bunch of reviews and testimonies on there from customers.

Only problem is all he reads is King James when he quotes scriptures.
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SteveW

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 03:48:25 PM »


Several years ago my Bible study leader and his wife went to Henry Wright's Pleasant Valley Church.  They passed out buckets, and had most everyone vomiting up evils spirits before the service was over.  The cause of these evil spirits was, of course, either generational curses (your great-great-great grandfather did something bad that you need to repent of) and having objects in your house that evil spirits are attracted to (your Star War's video and your kids comic books are devil magnets).

Nowdays, the thought that my wife and I wasted our time reading this nut's book and throwing away our kid's Pokeman cards is what makes me want to vomit.
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 11:15:05 PM »

Steve, been there done that too!!!

Ya know you wish you knew better then, but God didn't want us to know then.
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DuluthGA

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 04:38:35 AM »

Hi Kat, regarding:

"v. 11 of 2Thes 2  Therefore God sends (by the means of Satan) them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,"

I believe your parenthetical remark "by the means of Satan" is in error on your part.  And here's why:

Quoting Ray's recent Nashville transcript, "Where Did Jesus Come From" P. 2

... Because Satan deceives and God blinds.  God blinded them, Satan deceived (them).

Quite simply, God has His own direct hand by means of BLINDING/DELUDING His own works in this regard.  Apparently, Satan has enough to do.   ;)

Thanks for the AWARENESS on this, however,
Janice  :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 04:51:20 AM by DuluthGA »
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ez2u

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2007, 05:30:21 AM »

kat  please exp;ainto me exactly what you are saying because what i read is two different things.  God does heal today yesterday and he will tomorrow also when anyone is sick call the elders together to pray for you. That hasn't left this earth  Jesus still heals people.  Satan tries to copy Jesus to fool people in many ways  Jesus still heals people.  please explain to me what you mean.  Peggy
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2007, 11:09:31 AM »


Hi Janice,

I think you might be right about that, thanks for pointing it out  :)


ex2u, God certainly does still heal people.  I believe we should all pray for God intervention for those in need.
But I feel that many times in the churches, that put on a great show and claim to heal so many people, this is not of God.  These displays do not prove a person was healed, at that moment a person may be so excited as to think they are.  How many of those are truely miraculously healed? 
What are signs and wonders that lead people astray as spoken of in Mark?  Is it these claims of the churches in healing?  What other claims of miraculous acts do they have?

Mark 13:22  For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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SteveW

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2007, 11:14:02 AM »

Oblivion582, sorry if my previous post came off a bit harsh.  The bucket story is true though.

The movie Leap of Faith starring Steve Martin is pure fiction but shows more truth than you might imagine.  Self-proclaimed faith healers do not heal, but God does -- if it is his will and plan.  The same is true for elder's prayers, the healing will come to pass only if it is Gods will.  Gods spirit is the anointing oil, and comes only as He sees fit to send His spirit to heal.  

God lead my wife, my sick son, and I through many experiences with "healers", not to train us but to teach us.  Sometimes the hard way.

SteveW

P.S.  God did heal my son! :)  But in His time, at His pace, not ours or anyone elses.

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mari_et_pere

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2007, 11:21:02 AM »

Thanks for your answers guys! Basically your collective answer is what I think of it. Healings definitely happen, but it's not as common as TBN or people in the faith movement would have you believe.

Matt
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DuluthGA

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2007, 01:12:16 PM »

Hi All... and Kat I was so bloomin' tired I forgot to post the verse... which is the actual reason why (and not just because Ray says so.) 

2Thes 2: 11    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Don't know if there is a second witness, will think about it.  :)

Have a great day, Janice
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2007, 06:51:03 PM »

Matt, that is what I think too.
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2007, 05:45:07 PM »

Who is the actual healer?

An accurate question Zvezda. :)

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him THE FALSE PROPHET THAT WROUGHT MIRACLES BEFORE HIM, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.


"And no marvel [Gk: to wonder with ASTONISHMENT]; for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: meta schematizo, transfigure -- to change the outward form or appearance, to make GLORIOUS] into an ANGEL OF LIGHT" (II Cor. 11:14). Ref : http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html

All power is from heaven.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 05:47:44 PM by Arcturus »
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Oblivion582

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2007, 08:16:37 PM »

Quote
Oblivion582, sorry if my previous post came off a bit harsh.  The bucket story is true though.

The movie Leap of Faith starring Steve Martin is pure fiction but shows more truth than you might imagine.  Self-proclaimed faith healers do not heal, but God does -- if it is his will and plan.  The same is true for elder's prayers, the healing will come to pass only if it is Gods will.  Gods spirit is the anointing oil, and comes only as He sees fit to send His spirit to heal. 

God lead my wife, my sick son, and I through many experiences with "healers", not to train us but to teach us.  Sometimes the hard way.

SteveW

P.S.  God did heal my son!   But in His time, at His pace, not ours or anyone elses.

Hey its all good. If thats what happen, than I don't take it as too harsh. But yeah people don't "heal", God does. Even Kenneth E. Haggin knew that - one time he said he was running late for a healing service and there were ambulances everywhere and alot of pressure on him and while he was shaving he said "God, I didn't know there would be so many people out here" and he said he heard God say "You think you're gonna heal them?" and thats when he realized he was not the healer, but God is. Or something like that. I may not agree with some of Haggin, but I have learned from him. I believe that most people, or religions have SOME sort of truth within them. We were made in the image of God afterall.
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josh

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Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 04:20:21 AM »

Oblivion,

Were we made (past tense) in the image of God... or are we being made (present tense) into the image of God?

Here is how the text read in the original hebrews:

Genesis 1:27a

"and·he-is-creating Elohim » the·human in·image-of·him in·image-of Elohim he-created»·him"

If we (humanity as a whole) are presently made in the image of God... well then of all men I am most miserable.

Just some food for thought. God's Peace.
Josh
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mari_et_pere

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual healings
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2007, 12:00:30 PM »

Quote
Ok, so God does still heal people, I just wonder if it does happen in church. If so, then who is the actual healer in those real cases that happened in church, since we know that the church is Satan’s dwelling place?

While I agree that many churches are no place to find any type of learning, why all the harsh judgement calls? I'm no one to judge. I wonder why so many others here seem to be?

I'm pretty certain Satan didn't heal them Sunday. That's silly. You know something? I think it's sad that so many hear the word "church" and automatically think "Satan", "deceived", "lie", "thief", and a plethora of other words that might not fit every single church in the known universe. What would you do if you found the best church you've ever dreamed of? Would church be a good word again?

I'm not defending EVERY church for obviously some are truely Satanic, but are all evil? Before you say yes, are you basing your answer on personally checking out every single one of them, or jumping on the bandwagon of "church is Satan's playground?" Me thinks the latter, which is silly folly.

Matt
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