Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hillsbororiver]

While I was rereading the "Sermon on the Mount" paper I began to have it underlined in my mind how incredibly true it is that we see nothing spiritually until He grants us "eyes to see."

We know the Priests, Pharisees and scribes were extremely well schooled in the prophecies regarding the Messiah but totally got it wrong when the Messiah presented Himself to them, it was clearly displayed by those in the "establishment" of the Temple system that they were antagonistic toward the Words of Christ, sound familiar?

I was watching a documentary on Revelation the other day and I was amazed at how totally clueless the Ph.D's of Theology were, they had 3 or 4 commenting, giving their own interpretations in their solemn and scholarly way and it was pure Babel speak (confusion). One even went so far to say that John was under the influence of mind altering drugs or sensory deprivation due to his exile. He went on to say that since the Bible is so clear and literal, even though some of the history is suspect (his words) that the Book of Revelation is the result of John being in an altered state of consciousness. He was! He was in the Spirit!

Would many that presently lead or even follow the teachings in the denominations understand any of the following?



  JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES ON THE MOUNT

The following verses taken from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount make it abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests, or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:

"...and when He was set, His DISCIPLES came unto Him" (Matt. 5:1)

"And He opened His mouth, and taught THEM [His disciples]" (Ver. 2).

"Blessed are YE [all you disciples]..." (Ver. 11).

"...for great is YOUR [disciples'] reward..." (Ver. 12).

"YE [disciples] are the salt of the earth..." (Ver. 13).

"YE [disciples] are the light of the world..." (Ver. 14).

"Let YOUR [disciples'] light so shine..." (Ver. 16).

"For verily I say unto YOU [disciples]..." (Ver. 18).

"For I say unto YOU [disciples]..." (Ver. 20).

"YE [disciples] have heard that it was said..." (Ver. 21).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... whosoever is angry..." (Ver. 22).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... shall say to his brother, Raca..." (Ver. 22).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... whosoever shall say , 'You fool' shall be in danger of hell [Gehenna] fire" (Ver. 22).

"Therefore if YOU [disciples] bring your gift..." (Ver. 23).

"Agree with YOUR [disciples] adversary quickly..." (Ver. 25).

"Veryily I say unto YOU [disciples], YOU [disciples] shall by no means come out thence, till YOU [disciples] have paid the uttermost farthing" (Ver. 26).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples], that whosoever looks on a woman to lust..." (Ver. 28).

"And if YOUR right eye offend YOU [disciples], pluck it out, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body [the bodies of Christ's disciples, not the wicked unbelievers in the day of Judgment] should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Ver. 29).

"And if YOUR right hand offend YOU, cut it off, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples of Mine] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Verse 30).

Any question as to whom Jesus addressed His "Sermon on the Mount?" Is this "Gehenna fire" for the world of unbelieving sinners, or for His Own Disciples?

Read the rest here;

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Here is Ray's reply to an emailer who was confused and frustrated by the "scholarly christians." This really speaks to the mindset we will be dealing if we attempt to provide God's Truths to those whom God has yet to "give them eyes to see."



If you don't understand the mind of a Christian you will never understand why people like me do not usually debate them.  Let's say that they bring up a point (about anything) and you have Scripture that speaks directly to this point. Can you quote that Scripture to a Christian to make your point? NO, no you can't. Why is that? Because the second you quote it (according to them) you TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT. And to them, no Scripture is true "out of context."  "God is love" (I John 4:8), but ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF I John 4:8.

 You cannot just quote a Scripture and believe that it is a statement of fact or statement of eternal truth. They won't hear of it.  But don't they quote Scripture to support their views. Yes, of course they do, but they use them IN CONTEXT.  Who determines whether their use is in context and your use is not in context?  Why THEY DO, of course, and that is because they understand hermeneutics and you don't. See the difference?  I don't either, but that's just the way it is. If you can corner a snake in a briar patch, then you can debate a Christian with the Scriptures.

God be with you,

Ray

Peace,

Joe

[bambam]

Joe,
    I remember reading that, but I forgot that that was directed towards the disciples of Christ.  Thanks for the reminder!

Beth

[chuckt]

what about the great commision   JK

this is a good thread Joe!! very good reminder.

chuckt

[hillsbororiver]

You are very welcome Beth 

Thank you Chuck 

His Peace to you,

Joe

[YellowStone]

Hi Joe, I think this was the last straw for me as I discovered the words that I learned in grade school could mean anything but what they said when read in the Bible. This was when I walked away from all my many Bibles, books, ect for searching with my eyes and ears only led to greater confusion. A good friend and the local minister gave me a New King James Bible for my 21st birthday, with the following inscribed on the inside cover: "Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding"

Those words never left me and I soon realized that my understanding could only come from God and not from myself, so I walked away and let go of everything so that God might teach me, and teach He did, for the truth became very easy to see and the lies impossible to miss.

One should never debate Scripture with Scripture, I will now only sow the seed of doubt and ask a simple question:  "before you answer, how can you be so sure?" and leave it at that.

Thanks for a great thread Joe

Love in Christ,
Darren

[mari_et_pere]

Another thing I've run into when trying to simply talk with some Christians is one of their favorite responses is, "That's not what PASTOR SO AND SO says."

<sigh> I so wish people could open their minds a bit. All in due time I suppose.

Matt

[gmik]

If you can corner a snake in a briar patch.....

Unless someone truly wants to know and is willing to at least consider.....I wouldn't even bother to tell anyone.

Last nite my 2 sons & I were debating the Iraq war.  Duh, fugiddabotit!  Debates just declare your beliefs w/ no intention of changing or even thinking about the other side.

Darren, I love Prov. 3:5.  That is pretty much IT in a nutshell.

[jackson]

This has been a very timely post for me. Thank you Joe for the edification.  That is what it is all about anyway isn't it.  Instruction, clarification, consultation.

Gena, you are so right about debates; they really are just an out loud declaration of ideology.  Has anyones mind ever been changed in the history of the world by a debate?  I use to could get down and dirty expounding on an idea, then I realized...What really is the point?  All I was really trying to do was prove that my idea could beat up your idea!  What a colosal waist of time!

If it's not instructive it's hardly worth our breath.

Jackson

[hillsbororiver]

You are welcome Darren and Jackson, thank you both for your insights as well, I very much agree Matt and Gena it is rather pointless, it is better to just live the Word and be ready to give an answer if and when you are asked.

Another point here is that we must remember that the entire Bible is primarily for the edification of His elect, it's message is mostly a big secret to everyone else. It is not just the parables Jesus spoke that was for His own to understand and not the multitudes but everyone not chosen by Him (at this time).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Bradigans]

You are welcome Darren and Jackson, thank you both for your insights as well, I very much agree Matt and Gena it is rather pointless, it is better to just live the Word and be ready to give an answer if and when you are asked.

Another point here is that we must remember that the entire Bible is primarily for the edification of His elect, it's message is mostly a big secret to everyone else. It is not just the parables Jesus spoke that was for His own to understand and not the multitudes but everyone not chosen by Him (at this time).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Amen! I'm learning this. I no longer want to just talk THE WORD, I want to live THE WORD, the living word.

I enjoyed this thread...

[hillsbororiver]

Amen! I'm learning this. I no longer want to just talk THE WORD, I want to live THE WORD, the living word.

Amen to that Brother!

His Peace to you,

Joe

[bambam]

What an encouraging thread!!  Ever since I  "stumbled" on to the Bible Truths site, my head has been spinning.  But it's not necessarily what, or how much of what you know-it's who.  And living Him is what we are supposed to be doing, not trying to convince the world we are right and they're wrong.  That's what I want to do(convince the world), but don't because I am too shy.  Good thing I suppose!!  Like I said-a very encouraging thread!!!

Blessings,
Beth