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[YellowStone]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the great responses!

Darren, in regard to your question "In the Beginning God created...."

That is Genesis 1:1, sure they quote some scriptures but even in this they misinterpret it, most teach Jehovah created everything but do not teach that Jehovah is Jesus Christ they teach God the Father is Jehovah.

Eph 3:9  And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

The following verses are also quoted, but do they really teach it properly or believe it?

Joh 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
 
Joh 12:32  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
 
1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

His Peace to you,

Joe

Hi Joe, I agree with you in what they teach is not always what they know. I used this particular reference because during my time as a Presbyterian Bible study we were studying Colossians, and came across Col 1:16

Col 1:16   For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

There was no skirting around this one, that Christ was in fact God and was the God talked about in Genesis. But of course they never made the connection. For that matter neither did I until I read Ray's paper and immediately seen the truth for what it was. Is some truth better than no truth. Sometimes the answer appears to be yes. God does indeed work according to his understanding and not ours.

Love to you Christ,
Darren
 

[hillsbororiver]

May be attending babylon before discovering the truth and being called out of  her is  a necessary step of suffering in order to learn obedience.

Absolutely true!

But when we are called out and see it for what it is, we must stay out, this is not an ambiguous statement;

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Luk 17:32  Remember Lot's wife.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 

[hillsbororiver]

 Therefore there must be some truths dispense there. In my personal experience, I have been thoughts some truths while attending Church that Ray have confirmed.

Hi Prosizz,

Please do not think this is nitpicking but what exactly are these truths you speak of?

His Peace to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Everyone,

I have to be honest here and say I thought this would be a more vibrant topic, oh well.....

Anyone want to comment on what the churches might say about these verses in light of the fact they (mainstream christianity) teaches man was created perfect?

Jer 18:4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

[Bradigans]

I have a question based on the question. Who is Christ. Paul the apostle said in 1 Corinthians 1:13 - Is Christ divided? I don't think so. He said in1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.I believe the true church is an invisible body comprised of lively stones (1 Peter 2:5) connected through the Holy Ghost. As lively stones, we don't have a denomination, we have a head. Colossians 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. This is why we don't fit into Babylon. Christ didn't and doesn't...

[Bradigans]

I have a question based on the question. Who is Christ. Paul the apostle said in 1 Corinthians 1:13 - Is Christ divided? I don't think so. He said in1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.I believe the true church is an invisible body comprised of lively stones (1 Peter 2:5) connected through the Holy Ghost. As lively stones, we don't have a denomination, we have a head. Colossians 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. This is why we don't fit into Babylon. Christ didn't and doesn't...

Just to add, i don't think denomination has nothing right. How can you without the Head and His SPIRIT?

[Snowfire]

While in the WWCG I learned that the immortality of the soul was a lie.

[hillsbororiver]

Great post(s) Bradigans! Thank you.

Hi Snowfire,

The Seventh Day Adventists also teach that the soul is not immortal and just like the WWCG they believe annihilation is the destiny of those poor souls not in the Lamb's Book of Life.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[CEO]

Joe

     We join the church for her truths, we leave the church for her lies.

     There are many truths the Southern baptists have right-
     We are created beings.
     Our creator loves us and wants what is best for us.
     God's ways are better than our ways.
     The scriptures are God's word to man and are inerrant infallible and inspired
     What is in the heart is what really matters and is reflected in action
     Forgiveness of sins.
     Now we see through a mirror darkly.
     The ten commandments are a guide for good living
     Priesthood of the believer

      Then they miss on The sovereignity of God, free will, heaven, hell, ressurection, trinity, rapture, death, judgment,spirituality, new covenant, kingdom of god.

I am so glad Ray has enabled me to see so much so clearly.

                                          Askseeknock

                                          Charles O

[pylady]

Hi Joe,

I just bought a new copy of the KJV.  In the back is a section called "The ABCs of Salvation, some basic truths of the Christian faith as found in the Bible."

Here is what they say: 

  A.  ALL people are sinners.  Romans 3:23  "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

  B. God LOVES sinners and WANTS TO save them.  John 3:16

  C. NOTHING is impossible with God.  Luke 1:37   "for with God nothing shall be
      impossible."

  D. God has MERCY on sinners.  Romans 11:32  "For God hath concluded them
      ALL in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon ALL."

   E. Jesus has  gained VICTOR OVER DEATH.  1 Cor 15:54  "So when this
       corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall
       have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying
       that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

  ALL wonderful truths with scriptures to support the truths.

BUT, then what do they conclude?

  F.  HELL and punishment await unbelievers.   2Thess 1:8,9  "In flaming fire
       taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the
       gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall be punished with EVERLASTING
       DESTRUCTION from the presence of the Lord, and from the power of His
       glory."

What happened to God's love and mercy and the fact that everything is possible for Him?  Where is the victory over death if billions of people are in  "hell" being kept alive to be tortured  forever?? 

They've got the scriptures, they even teach the scriptures, but they don't
BELIEVE the scriptures.

Methinks they are confused!   

  Christian love,

      Cindy

[hillsbororiver]

Joe (Your comments are in bold, mine blue, the Lord's red)

     We join the church for her truths, we leave the church for her lies.

     There are many truths the Southern baptists have right-

     We are created beings. (We are in the process of being created in His image, we are not there yet.)

     Our creator loves us and wants what is best for us. (He will burn many in an eternal hell hole for eternity)

     God's ways are better than our ways. (Who among us would burn, torture people forever because they did not know our name?)
 
     The scriptures are God's word to man and are inerrant infallible and inspired (How about this verse, I can provide scores more as to God's will to save all, do they believe this? Joh 12:32  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.)

     What is in the heart is what really matters and is reflected in action (Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?)

     Forgiveness of sins. (Eternal hell?)

     Now we see through a mirror darkly. (I think you mean 1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Sure they quote some verses but what do they say this really means? You need a preacher in a pulpit teaching man made doctrines such as the 2 compartments of Hell?)
 
     The ten commandments are a guide for good living (Since the laws of almost every nation are based on these commandments they have a lot of company but what is the spiritual lesson they teach here? Do they truly love their brothers or do they promote war and nationalism right within their doors? 1Jn 4:20  If a man say, I love God and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

They pay lip service to many verses but the teachings are diametrically opposed to the spiritual lesson Christ and the apostles (through His Spirit) taught.)


     Priesthood of the believer (The Kings and Priests spoken of (the elect) are in the age to come not in this present age; 1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:)

      Then they miss on The sovereignity of God, free will, heaven, hell, ressurection, trinity, rapture, death, judgment,spirituality, new covenant, kingdom of god.

I could not agree more!

But they really do not get anything right it is all tainted, reflected light filtered through the doctrines of men.

I am so glad Ray has enabled me to see so much so clearly.

Amen Brother!

                                          Askseeknock

                                          Charles O

His Peace to you Charles,

Joe

[SixFour]

Hello Everyone...

Joe,

I can only say this for the two churches I was a part of before I really left Babylon: They were both "Word Of Faith" churches, influenced heavily by Fred Price and Oral Roberts. Both pastors (one being a close friend) were exemplary when it came to integrity and teaching practical things about family, marriages and relationships. Neither of these guys spoke of money as do a lot of pastors in their "circle." Nevertheless, I couldn't sit in one of their services comfortably now, even if I was in a "Lazy-Boy." They both would take scripture out of context like taking a piece of a puzzle, putting it on a table, and then saying "It's completed!" I would always scratch my head at some of their teachings, but then conclude: "He's the pastor...he must know what he's talking about."

James

[hillsbororiver]

Cindy,

Yes! You nailed it Sister! They will quote wonderful beautiful scriptures and turn God into a weak, vengeful, unforgiving tyrant who cannot even fulfil His own will, He creates perfect beings who turn around and rebel against Him and gets caught off guard requiring a "plan B."

You recognized this perfectly, they will say one thing about how wonderful and loving He is and in the very next breath they will say the exact opposite.

It is amazing, thank God for opening our eyes!

His Peace and Wisdom to you Cindy,

Joe   

[SixFour]

Oh, I want to add this:

Neither of these pastors speak about "hell." They would only give an "altar" call asking:  "If you died right now, would you go to heaven?" Then: "Have you been baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in 'other' tongues?"

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Everyone...

Joe,

I can only say this for the two churches I was a part of before I really left Babylon: They were both "Word Of Faith" churches, influenced heavily by Fred Price and Oral Roberts. Both pastors (one being a close friend) were exemplary when it came to integrity and teaching practical things about family, marriages and relationships. Neither of these guys spoke of money as do a lot of pastors in their "circle." Nevertheless, I couldn't sit in one of their services comfortably now, even if I was in a "Lazy-Boy." They both would take scripture out of context like taking a piece of a puzzle, putting it on a table, and then saying "It's completed!" I would always scratch my head at some of their teachings, but then conclude: "He's the pastor...he must know what he's talking about."

James

Hi James,

That is what they count on, the sheep blindly following their blind guides. I have seen blatent misrepresentations by the TV preachers and in the pulpit, these preachers count on the majority to consign the bible and it's scriptures to the back of the bus as they present the man made doctrines as divine.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Snowfire]

Great post(s) Bradigans! Thank you.

Hi Snowfire,

The Seventh Day Adventists also teach that the soul is not immortal and just like the WWCG they believe annihilation is the destiny of those poor souls not in the Lamb's Book of Life.

His Peace to you,

Joe

We know the truth that the soul is not immortal, so where did the Seventh Day Adventists get the truth that the soul is not immortal.  I think what we are establishing here is that even Satin knows the scriptures and will decieve (the many) people by it.

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Snowfire,

All the denominations (and non denominations) have bits of truth but always seem to mix in the man made stuff right along with them, I cannot see one undefiled "truth" from any of the established churches. Even the most basic tenet of Christianity "Jesus died for our sins" is polluted by eternal torment or even annihilation for some if not most.

Yes, the Adventists understand the soul is not immortal but they also see it as being extinguished if a person is not a member in good standing of the Adventists at their death. They believe they are the 144,000 in Revelation and that the majority of creation will be permanently destroyed.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[rj]

Hey Joe

Great thread....I can say from my 50 yrs in, and out of church i was taught some half truths, and a lot of out right lies, but i do want to say one thing about the church, without getting this thread off topic, they are following Gods plan to a tee, but through the scriptures, and Rays teachings i am beginning to see, that His plan for the called, and His plan for the called out ones ,are as different, as night, and day..hence..

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Ron

[ez2u]

most of my time has been spent away from the denomiational churches.  After Jon died I sat and listen to a really good music minstry for 2 years.  What the preacher said I did not hear. earlier   I was born again in a small in time fellowship that had a progressive  Word of God with alot of Rays teaching. it dissolved.   Out of the 8 groups I went to 5 dissolved.  I found in churches, not small groups, there were groupies and like high school a varied of activities going on.  Some people really loved God and wanted the true, others had problems, others wanted to get married, others wanted to be important some liked alot of social activities  ect...  It was like church was just about life.  I had so much to do I could not stay and I need to understand more of the Word of God.  I did meet some very wonderful people and I found out I could not could not make any mistakes there nor talk about my past nor walk in my gifts The Lord gave me.  In church I had to shut up. sit down and follow their rules which to me wasn't going to happen  Being from a household of mental illness  I don't like crazy. peggy

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your response, I agree that the churches do have a purpose and it is not my intention to bash the people who are still walking in the moonlight. Once the Lord begins to open our eyes to His real plan and purpose for His creation why would we continue to expose ourselves to the half truths and outright lies that are so predominate there?

The reason I started this thread and the "Neighborhood Watch" topic was that when the Lord calls us out of Babylon sharing His sacred secrets with us in regard to the infinite Love which is God, how could we sit silent as He is being portrayed in the pulpit as impotent, mean, cruel, unforgiving, a torturer of children and the elderly, and unable to create perfection even as He wills it. I could not bear hearing untruths about my family and friends week after week, how could one listen to these things about our Lord and Saviour?

Hello Peggy,

I do believe that you are right on target with your observations, this is what I remembered about the Catholic churches I attended as a youth, the SDA church for the couple years I was there and especially the Baptist church I attended at my wife's prompting a little over 2 years ago.

At that time she had attended this church (alone) for maybe 3 years, she was in the choir and a couple women's study groups and volunteered for many of the functions, she would drag me over there for some of the activities but I always couldn't wait to get away.

About a week or two before I stumbled onto Bible Truths I had finally given in to her requests to start attending with her, I would just sit and read my bible through the little skits, talent shows, announcements, and requests for $$$ to fund some pet project or other. I had noticed that in this approximate hour at the church about 6 to 8 minutes was actually devoted to His Word, maybe that was the pastor's way of tithing the church's time to God. 

I think it was my 4th or 5th visit to this church when the 2 compartments of hell business came up, I had been consuming Ray's papers like a man might consume water after spending a few dry days in the desert, anyway my groans could be heard 5 or 6 pews away as this heresy was being spoken. I was muttering "chapter and verse please?" My wife was elbowing me in the ribs as I continued to moan and ask questions out loud, I sure got an earful in the parking lot as my wife was REALLY UPSET with my behaviour, I told her, "then I imagine you won't mind the fact that I am never going back."

Needless to say she was not overly enthusiastic about Bible Truths and L. Ray Smith! 

My wife bemoaned the fact that it took her years to get me to attend with her and it took Bible Truths a week or two to get me back out. 

Well, now my wife no longer attends, the hypocrisy, the cliques, the insatiable money demands (or offerings if you prefer) that were asked for in public to help shame the members into giving over and above the tithes. Although she reads her bible daily and we do discuss many things she still is not convinced about the Truths I have come to embrace. God has a plan for her and in His time it will be done.

Sorry for getting a bit long winded here....

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe