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Author Topic: Why?  (Read 6044 times)

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seminole

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Why?
« on: August 04, 2007, 07:11:57 PM »

There was a thread closed down about suffering. Apparrently it got too confrontational by someone and it closed. My question is why can we all not ask questions without being afraid of someone dumping on us? I am reminded of something my grandfather said to me once. He said that most bullies are hurting inside and only feel better if they are cutting someone else down. Bad things happen. I don't know why. God doesn't always heal. I don't know why. There are groups in churches who will come down on you if you question something and there are people here who will do the same to you. Sharing what is learned at "Bible-Truths"? can't really do it without taking a chance on getting slammed. What to do???
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 11:18:52 PM »

Good point, seminole.

Brett

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Shmeggly

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 11:27:02 PM »

I think I had posted on that, but the thread was locked.  We need to be able to question (in a respectful way) things that we don't understand, or that may in fact be wrong....nobody has a 100% lock on everything....

One thing I don't understand, is the willingness to use sarcasm and almost putting people down, to get the point across.  It's not necessary at all, specially for like minded and good willed individuals that are the bulk of this forum. 

There will always be people that ask questions in a rude and condescending manner, and they may need a more assertive/sarcastic approach.  I have no problem with that.  But when a question is asked out of the heart, then that should be respected.  And there are fine examples of great patience on this forum (hillsbororiver) when maybe people make mistakes in their posts (me), or come across the wrong way.  I respect that approach, and I think most people do. 


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Jackie Lee

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 11:51:15 PM »

I agree with you Shmeggly, that really bothers me when someone is talked down too.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 11:53:18 PM by Jackie Lee »
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sasscell

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 11:53:49 PM »

WHY?  Because knowing it and living it are 2 different things.
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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2007, 12:06:59 PM »

It seems to me, that some are so angry with the lies they were told and possibly believed, that they are letting this dark shadow hang over their love for the truth.  May Love and Truth prevail ~ that is my prayer, because we have to learn to forgive, if we, ourselves want forgiveness.

Peace, Lisa
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 01:52:55 PM »

Thank you for the kind words Shmeggly, I agree with the premise being made in this thread, we should all show some patience and longsuffering when legitimate questions are being asked. I believe that is how the Lord showed us to respond and if you pay close attention to Ray he has a remarkable ability to discern the misguided (sheep) from the antagonist (wolf).

Also we all should remember to not become easily offended by what may appear to be an abrupt statement when in fact it could be only a different style of communication. Patience gets the best results when all parties use it.  ;)

It has been mentioned many times that with only this 2 dimensional form of communication (writing) versus seeing body language, hearing voice intonations and all that you can perceive in person, a witty off handed remark can come across as rude or without compassion. We should all be careful of the image we project in words and give our brethren the benefit of the doubt on both sides of this issue.

His Peace to you,

Joe
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 01:59:09 PM by hillsbororiver »
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2007, 03:04:17 PM »

"Nole, did you read Joe's post before he locked it??  He explained it.  You can still go and re read the entire thread.  It was getting too long and going off topic.

To all:
Just start a new thread.

If we all can't "live the walk" here amongst like believers then how are we gonna do it among the world?

Love one another, be patient and kind, give one another the benefit of the doubt, ask, skip that post, don't respond, pray,
there are lots of things to do instead of nursing hurt feelings or up and leaving. (this goes along w/ my other post I just did on the same thing started by Brett.)
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Shmeggly

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Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2007, 04:07:47 PM »

Yes Joe, 2 dimensional writing makes it hard to discern intention etc....communication is mostly non verbal....

Well said Gena!  I'm done.... :)
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2007, 05:08:01 PM »

Hey Seminole,

Thank you for the post.  You asked what to do. Shmeggly, Gena, Lisa and Joe and others have given you some excellent food for thought.  I would also like to share my perspective here even though I might repeat what they have said.  I hope this helps.  I have already spoken in another thread about being tough where necessary.  I'll confine my remarks here to perceived inappropriate behavior.

Perhaps I am oversensitive to bullies since I spent most of my young adult life in constant fear for my safety and sometimes my life. [If I ever get up the courage MG has displayed I might share my story publicly but not today]  I tried to fight back at first verbally then with my fists but was soon overpowered and even more severely beaten.  I learned very quickly that avoidance was the best way to survive.  Well, you can't always avoid them and you end up taking a beating.  You might get a punch or word in but that just makes them more aggressive.  It is usually best to hope they run out of steam fast or someone comes to your rescue.

Bullies are the same everywhere.  They have huge egos and tend to overcompensate for their own weaknesses.  No matter what you say or do you are usually wrong in their eyes.   Here on the forum, since they cannot beat the victim with their fists, their tactics tend to be false accusation, character maligning either direct or thinly veiled, or sometimes making it look like the victim doesn't follow Christ's teachings, doesn't agree with  Ray,  or has some evil agenda.  There as sometimes an indication that they know what is in the victim's heart better than the victim  does.  [I tend to laugh a lot at those.] In most cases, they take what the victim has posted and in their minds add to it, warp it into some personal attack or an attack at their ideals and then blast off.

It doesn't happen the same way all the time and some are sneakier than others.  If you ask a legitimate question and get slammed, then my advice is to proceed with caution and patience. Sometimes as Joe pointed out, with two-dimensional communication you can be misunderstood.  [With my quirky way of communicating, that happens to me a lot and I expect to make a few clarifications.]   Ignoring it doesn't always work but usually is best.  The moderators do a great job here and if something gets out of hand it usually gets taken care of properly.  Whatever happens, please don't take these things as personal affronts.  Remember, if you are being bullied, you are not alone and if not you were probably just misunderstood.

My beliefs are similar to Lisa's  and Sasscell's in that I think these bullies may believe the truth but they are still living in babylon.  They are overreacting much like a smoker who has quit has to smokers around them.  They wield a double-edged sword of self righteousness very wildly.  I only hope that they don't cut themselves much less the rest of us.  I can't help it but with my background, I pity them.  I am sad that they cannot have peace within themselves and share it with us.  I pray God's will sees them through this period in their lives  to escape the worldliness that has entangled them.  I pray the same for myself as well.

Quote
If we all can't "live the walk" here amongst like believers then how are we gonna do it among the world?

Amen Gena :)

be blessed
feat


« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 05:30:05 PM by Harryfeat »
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2007, 05:59:12 PM »

Thank you feat for a very relevent post, indignation is not conducive to spiritual growth and if we expect patience and understanding we need to provide it as well as we demand it from others.

My (carnal) nature is to be aggressive and confrontational when challenged, by the grace of God I can see how wicked this is when I submit to it, when I feel my blood pressure rise and the adrenaline flowing I have learned to step back and seek His council, on my own I will fail. Of course I do not always meet the mark but when I don't the feeling of condemnation I receive (from Him) inspires repentance.

Great post Brother,

Joe
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LittleBear

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Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 06:48:50 PM »

Hi feat,

Thank you. That helps. I tend to ignore them, but still, it makes one edgy.

Ursula
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Pax Vobiscum

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2007, 07:52:22 PM »

If ever I am to come to think that God is not in control, I will remember that He caused me to be out of town for the "Suffering" thread meltdown!

I can't wait to hear more from those of you who posted in love, peace, and authority.

Peace




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seminole

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Re: Why?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 08:02:23 PM »

Pax, that was a great response! I hope we all can communicate well and openly.
Nole
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sansmile

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Re: Why?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 09:24:17 PM »

WELL SAID PAX,

I have gradually become deaf, through that carnal deprivation of hearing, He has humbled me. I now hear through spiritual ears. What a sweet, sweet sound!!!!
Sandie x
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Walk in the Spirit

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2007, 09:34:38 PM »

I agree Pax we need to speak love peace and authority. Jesus and Paul all demonstrated our need to be humble and gentle too.

All of us have this tendency to dominate/ bully on some level. The way the bully acts is his problem the way we react to the bully is ours. Running may be a good response in the physical but as believers we need to do better.

I was watching 20/20 about these  short and tall people. And suddenly my outlook about David and Goliath changed. Despite my own training I did not take anything into account when I read this story in the scripture

Goliath was a big and bully but if he was was a pituitary Giant he had to be experiencing a lot of pain and rvrn though the stone killed him ...he definitely had a limited life and would have died prematurely anyway. The society that he lived in would have abandoned him in the end when he was weak....but god's people would have supported him when he was crippled (Like David did for the crippled son of Jonathan).

Back to the topic... after being deceived for so long...people are defensive and tired of dealing with half truths. We are commanded to study to show ourselves approved....sometimes posters do not do this. These so called bullies need to be here too...they need to learn patience. Some of us need to learn to accept undeserved criticism more graciously. (I say this because I have been there and done that ....as some oldies may remember when I posted ..... I offended my God and besmirched my own nametag )

Many of us want to Fellowship and sometimes there is a lot of milk mixed in what is posted but many of us our really hungry for meat. WE do not all have the ability to study together and chew on things and there are many topics that Ray has not written on.

This leads me to another point. (I aplogize for this long paste)

(Heb 5:12 CLV)  For when also, because of the time, you ought to be teachers, you have need again of one to teach you what are the rudimentary elements of the oracles of God, and you have come to have need of milk, and not of solid nourishment."

(Heb 5:13 CLV)  For everyone who is partaking of milk is untried in the word of righteousness, for he is a minor."

(Heb 5:14 CLV)  Now solid nourishment is for the mature, who, because of habit, have faculties exercised for discriminating between the ideal and the evil."

(Heb 6:1 CLV)  Wherefore, leaving the word dealing with the rudiments of Christ, we should be brought on to maturity, (not again disrupting (weymouth continually re-laying a) foundation of .....repentance from dead  (lifeless)  works, and of faith on God,

(Heb 6:2 CLV)  of the teaching of baptizings, besides the imposition of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and of judgment eonian)."

(Heb 6:3 CLV)  And this will we be doing, that is, if God may be permitting."
(Heb 6:4 CLV)  For it is impossible for those once enlightened, besides tasting the celestial gratuity and becoming partakers of holy spirit,
(Heb 6:5 CLV)  and tasting the ideal declaration of God, besides the powerful deeds of the impending eon,
(Heb 6:6 CLV)  and falling aside, to be renewing them again to repentance while crucifying for themselves the Son of God again and holding Him up to infamy."

(Heb 6:7 CLV)  For land which is drinking the shower coming often on it, and bringing forth herbage fit for those because of whom it is being farmed also, is partaking of blessing from God;"
(Heb 6:8 CLV)  yet, bringing forth thorns and star thistles, it is disqualified and near a curse, whose consummation is burning."
(Heb 6:9 CLV)  Yet we are persuaded of better things concerning you, beloved, and those which have to do with salvation, even if we are speaking thus."
(Heb 6:10 CLV)  For God is not unjust, to be forgetting your work and the love which you display for His name when you serve the saints, and are serving."(Heb 6:11 CLV)  Now we are yearning for each one of you to be displaying the same diligence toward the assurance of the expectation until the consummation,
(Heb 6:12 CLV)  that you may not be becoming dull. Now be imitators of those who through faith and patience are enjoying the allotment of the promises.(Heb 12:2 ALT)  looking with undivided attention to the Originator and Perfecter of [our] faith-Jesus-who, because of the joy being set before Him, endured a cross, having disregarded [the] shame, and has sat down at [the] right hand of the throne of God.

(Heb 12:3 ALT)  For consider carefully the One having endured such hostility by the sinners against Himself, lest you* become weary in your* souls, being discouraged.

(Heb 12:14 ALT)  Be pursuing peace with all [people], and the holiness, without which no one will see the Lord,
(Heb 12:15 ALT) looking after [one another] lest anyone [be] falling short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness growing up shall be causing trouble, and through this many be defiled],
[/u]

I am certainly not looking for a teaching position and I am not writing this as a challenge to any of Ray's teaching after all this forum is on his website. I am writing because I am concerned that some people have been here long enough now and may be yearning to be teachers. IF it is God's will they should find some place and a way to persue this. 

Others are content to being spoonfed and some are here and are unwilling to let go of some of their Babylonian trappings. If your belief does not agree with those on BT ....then go elsewhere to debate......We here at BT will not be moved. 

We all know
(Pro 25:2 KJVR)  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

(2Ti 4:2 ALT)  Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season [fig., whether the time is favorable or not], convict, rebuke, [and] encourage, with all patience and teaching.
(2Ti 4:3 ALT)  For there will be a time when they themselves will not put up with sound teaching, _but_ according to their own lusts they will heap up teachers to themselves, itching in the ear [fig., craving to hear what they want to hear],
(2Ti 4:4 ALT)  and on the one hand they will turn away the ear from the truth, on the other hand they will be turned aside to myths.
(2Ti 4:5 ALT)  But _you_, be sober [or, clear-headed] in all [things]; endure hardship; do the work of an evangelist; completely fulfill your ministry.


Now the Newbies and some Juniors need to read the papers more before you post. Use the search button and look up the topic or word and read what has been posted already . IT is too bad that the topics are not categorized. Unfortunately there are some gems hidden deep in other topics.

Old timers re-read the papers. Be patient with the newbies and babies. Like Gena says........play nice  Preview your post and see where you can be more loving.

This forum is a place of Fellowship.  ;D

If you are concerned about the poster's view ....USE your PM more to discuss the points of disagreement.  ;D

Being called out of Babylon means moving from babyhood to maturity. WE all need to overcome these petty character flaws.  ;D

1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God


Beloved



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