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Author Topic: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers  (Read 2177 times)

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eggi

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Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« on: August 11, 2007, 06:46:54 PM »

Hi all,

I've been away from the forum for about a week or so, I've been working late nights at work. I'm so sad to see that there seems to be a few conflicts here regarding the closing of threads. I'm not starting this thread to criticize in any direction, I'm just posting what came in my mind when I read the threads where some members complained about the moderators.

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(Heb 13:17-21 KJV)


The word "obey", it should actually be "esteem":

G3982
πείθω
peithō
pi'-tho
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

This does not mean that we should blindly follow anyone, there are other scriptures that take care of that:

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (Act 5:29 KJV)

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1 KJV)


I write to you in hope that there will be order to the forum.

Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. (1Jn 4:11-12 KJV)

God bless you,
Eirik

PS. There are many scriptures which discuss this subject. Unity and love is important!
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2007, 02:05:43 PM »



Hi Eirik,

Disagreements with a moderator's decision is to be expected, however there is not one moderator, administrator, or does even Ray expect anyone to "blindly follow" anyone here. What is "blind" about staying within the rules agreed upon at the time of joining? The Forum's purpose is clearly stated, it is not ambiguous and the intent is not to subjugate but to keep the peace.

Why are there outlines, guidelines, laws and rules in place everywhere we look? Only to enslave? Or could it be that order is the goal?

We may disagree with some traffic laws, a stop sign in a spot where some feel there shouldn't be one whereas others believe a stop sign is insufficient there should be a traffic light. The speed limit is too slow for some and others feel safety is compromised at the "excessive" speed allowed. What if everyone just drove the way they felt was right, disregarding the laws, I mean we all know how to operate a motor vehicle, who needs all these restrictions?

What if the cops just stopped enforcing any traffic laws because they were weary of the constant complaints often from diametrically opposed viewpoints, the "too slow" crowd complaining just as loud as the "too fast" proponents. Even in an imperfect world having guidelines/laws/rules helps to slow the anarchy and chaos that results from everyone only answering to themselves.

When it is suggested that a person seeking debate seek it elsewhere that does not mean to relinquish their membership here, it means go to one of the religious debate sites that are readily available, there is no need to read anything more into it, some seem to revel in being offended seeing offense where none really exists.

I consulted Rotherham's in regard to the verses in Hebrews 13, I think it conveys a clearer message than the KJV in this instance;


Heb 13:17 Be yielding unto them who are guiding you, and submit yourselves; For they are watching over your souls as having an account to render. That with joy the same they may be doing, and not with sighing, for unprofitable unto you were this.

(Believe me there are times of "sighing" among the moderators, when things begin unraveling and edifying spiritual peace is replaced by unprofitable arguments and strife, bruised egos in place of spiritual growth.)

Heb 13:18 Be praying for us; (we certainly need it!) For we persuade ourselves that an honourable conscience have we.(None of us are on power trips or personal vendettas, we admonish and counsel each other as well) In all things honourably desiring to behave ourselves.

Heb 13:19 But much more abundantly do I exhort you the same to do. (It is a two way street, we all need to be moderate, temperate) That more speedily I may be restored unto you.

Heb 13:20 But the God of peace He that led up from among the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep, with the blood of an age abiding covenant , our Lord Jesus Christ.
(We do pray for the guidance of His Spirit, we should hope all here do the same)

Heb 13:21 Fit you by every good work for the doing of His will, Doing within us that which is well pleasing before Him through Jesus Christ: To whom be the glory, unto the ages of ages , Amen.

There are going to be some who read this post and will say to themselves and/or PM others saying "who does this guy (and the other moderators by extension) think he is? I/we don't need to submit ourselves to his guidance, who does he think he is, Paul? No, I do not think I am Paul, but for some reason I do find myself in this position, a position with no worldly compensation (I do not desire any gain from it either), one that is time consuming even when I am not on line, this Forum is never far from my mind, I (all moderators) only want the best for our members here, we want nor expect anything from you other than your spiritual growth and edification.

There will be times decisions are made that will not, can not be readily explained to everybody's satisfaction, we do not seek to embarrass people, even people who do not have our best interests at heart. Sometimes there are situations that need to happen behind the scenes, please believe me all of us consult the other moderators when difficult decisions arise none of us want to be judged by our Lord as scattering His sheep or putting stumbling blocks in the paths of His people.

I hope this helps clear the air a bit more.

His Peace and Wisdom to you all,

Joe





         
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gmik

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2007, 02:14:56 PM »

Thanks guys!
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LittleBear

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 03:39:38 PM »

Thanks Joe,

It's good to know that you moderators are working behind the scenes to keep things in order and flowing. I appreciate all of you and what you do.

Love,

Ursula
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Harryfeat

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2007, 06:34:57 PM »

Thanks for that reminder Joe. 

I've been gone for a couple of weeks also and don't really understand what all the fuss is about.  The moderators have a job to do which entails, among other numerous tasks, making sure that the rules of the forum are followed.  I believe that they have shown a lot of patience, tolerance and good judgment in what they do.  I don't always understand why they do certain things and not others but hey, I don't know the big picture or any of what goes on behind the scenes. 

They have taken the trouble to try to explain some of this to us and I for one am grateful because it shows that they care about what they do and are not just acting out a policeman's role.  The love is apparent and we are indeed fortunate.

It has been said before but the message somehow keeps getting lost. This forum is for us in our fellowship and to discuss Ray's teaching on BT.  It is just that simple and the rules are very clear.

Though it is troubling to see this, I pray that God's will is to see us stronger with more loving tolerance and patience to our brothers and sisters.

be blessed
feat
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2007, 10:23:51 AM »

You are very welcome Gena, Ursula & feat,

 
It has been said before but the message somehow keeps getting lost. This forum is for us in our fellowship and to discuss Ray's teaching on BT.  It is just that simple and the rules are very clear.

Though it is troubling to see this, I pray that God's will is to see us stronger with more loving tolerance and patience to our brothers and sisters.

be blessed
feat


This is also my prayer, that we emerge stronger in His Spirit and with more discernment.

Could episodes such as we just experienced be the "shaking of heaven & earth" spoken of so often in Scripture?

Here are just a few verses, check out "shake," shaking," "shook," on Esword, I found it pretty interesting.


Joe 3:16  The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
 
Hag 2:21  Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake  the heavens and the earth;

Heb 12:26  Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

Are we being shaken from complacency, self righteousness, even lukewarmness? Have some of us gone back to relying on our own reasoning? Since this theme is repeated so often throughout His Word it must be something all of us continually need to be on guard against.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 
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Kat

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2007, 11:24:24 AM »


Hi Joe,

Those are really good scripture.  If we are in Christ when the storms come, we will not be shaken.

Luke 6:48  He is like a man who built a house and dug deep and laid the foundation on a rock; and a flood occurring, the stream burst against that house and could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock.

Maybe we are being prepared to stand firm now, with these little storms, so we can not be shaken on the day of the Lord's return.

Eph 6:13  Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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eggi

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2007, 05:12:44 PM »

Hi Joe,

I hope you didn't misunderstand what I said in my post. I realise now that it could be misunderstood, as I was pretty tired when I wrote it, or maybe I'm tired now?  ???

Anyway, what I meant to say was that following the rules does not equal that we follow the moderators or Ray blindly, as others tried to insinuate. We should appreciate the fact that others are watching out for us.

Hope this makes it clearer,
Eirik
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2007, 06:37:14 PM »

Hello Eirik,

To be honest I was not sure where exactly you were coming from on this issue, I responded to some valid points that were presented in your post. Your non accusational tone and my perception that it was answers you desired and not controversy made me appreciate the need for some clarification on what motivates the moderating team.

That we are careful and wary of being led anywhere by men is a good thing, to reject something out of hand because a man (or woman) stated it is folly and will stunt our spiritual growth as the Lord uses people to convey His message(s) all through scripture, we are to test the spirits not turn a deaf ear to them.

There are some out there in churches, forums or wherever people gather to discuss biblical or spiritual things that do desire followers, to be considered an apostle, messenger, deeply spiritual, you name it, they seek the approval of others first, in fact some are so blinded to this fact they will say or do about anything to keep attention focused on them with the Lord being an afterthought. I can say this with conviction, none of the moderators want followers, we would not know what to do with them!  ;)  ;D

We also are not here to build some big mega cyber church with Ray as some infallible leader (he would cringe at the thought I assure you), we are here because we do believe the spirit has given Ray spiritual meat to share with the people craving it, we are here to do our best to keep the Forum true to the reason it was established, to discuss the articles and to edify and encourage each other in our journeys, not to debate the religious flavor of the day. That's it! No hidden agenda.

Eirik please do not be troubled or think you have crossed any line or are thought of any differently, that is not and was not the case. We needed to clear the air a bit more and I believe you helped us tremendously in doing just that.

Thank you Brother,

Joe
     
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Craig

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2007, 06:43:12 PM »

Quote
I can say this with conviction, none of the moderators want followers, we would not know what to do with them!

I'm not sure I agree with Joe here.  I have several acres needing tended to and a bunch of painting to get caught up on and spring cleaning to get done still.  If you want to follow me I will keep you busy ;D ;)

Craig
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2007, 06:56:25 PM »

Sorry Craig I spoke out of turn  :(

I forgot about all the work you had back at The Parsons Estate, local folks I hear refer to it as The Ponderosa.

I will be more careful in the future.  ;)

Joe
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eggi

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2007, 07:27:25 PM »

Hi Joe,

Good to know! God bless you in your work as a moderator, and in everything else!

Now I'm off to bed,
good night...

PS. I was thinking about watching the comet, but now it's overcast here... Next year, Lord willing...
 :)
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Chris R

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Re: Allowing others to be our guides and helpers
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2007, 09:15:05 PM »

Well folks,

I can only add to these comments, In the words of Dudley Do-right....Always willing to help a citizen in need

And to your left note the devious Snidely Whiplash, tying up yet another helpless forum member, but to the rescue..."Our Hero"... Here, here! You oughtn't to do a thing like that: going around tying defenseless people to railroad tracks!

Although i joke a bit, please remember we love you all, and still do the best we can to keep the forum running as smoothly as possible

peace

Chris R

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