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Feeling Lost
bambam:
I finally had a long talk with my husband last night about what i have been studying at bibletruths. It was a good talk and I know my husband loves me, but the talk came about because I told him I was so confused-about so many things. The more I tried to explain, the more confused I got.
It all goes back to how I feel about the church I attend. If everything they teach is wrong than how could God bless their ministry so much. There are so many wonderful people in our church and our pastor really cares about people. My husband said to me, that he knows that what he believes is right because of the men who have made an impact on his life who were great examples to him, and also because of the blessings God has given to our church because of the faithfulness of the people in it. I could not argue with that at all! I AM confused.
This week we are having Vacation Bible School. The family that is doing it seem so genuine and really concerned for the lives of kids. They have given their lives over to all these things thay they hope will lead people to Christ. They are committed and determined and they aren't just talking, they live it.
To me, it seems like such a cruel joke for these people to really believe that they are making a serious difference in this world, and one day they will learn they were wrong. It just doesn't seem right.
On the other hand, I don't want to believe that God is going to torture people in the lake of fire forever. And that is the premise that they operate on. My husband doesn't see it. He goes right back to, "What are the people who believe what you believe doing to get souls saved? Where is their fruit?" I don't know what to say to him.
And today, I am extremely depressed. I still don't know what to believe. To think that all of those dear people are living a lie just doesn't seem right, or fair, or sane. It seems so cruel.
My husband wants me to talk to our pastor, and I just do not feel comfortable doing that. I am angry. I am confused and I just keep thinking, why Lord? Why is this happening to me. My emotions are in a whirlwind and I feel like I am going crazy.
I ask myself, "Have I been decieved by Satan into believing this stuff I have read on bibletruths?" I feel like I want to believe what I have found, but there are many things I am leaving behind if I do-and they are not bad things necessarily. I just do not know how to explain all of this, but i need some Godly counsel and I have no idea where to go for that except here.
I want it to be so plain that I just can't deny it's the truth-but it isn't. It isn't that easy. I have been studying for nine months, and my husband says he does not see any fruit in me from all of this studying. I admit, I have been difficult to live with because of many reasons. But it does not mean God is not working in me.
I have so much to do around my house as a wife, mom, and teacher, but I don't want to do anything because my heart is aching. I am sad, angry, confused-a basic mess. What am I supposed to do here? I don't want to parrot the truth from someone else. I want to know it, believe it in my heart, and give an answer to those who ask. I can't do that right now.
If you have no counsel for me, at least I could use your prayers. It hurts. And no one understands this kind of pain, at least no one I know personally. Thank you. I just don't know what else to do.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: bambam on August 13, 2007, 01:53:57 PM ---
Hi Bambam,
I finally had a long talk with my husband last night about what i have been studying at bibletruths. It was a good talk and I know my husband loves me, but the talk came about because I told him I was so confused-about so many things. The more I tried to explain, the more confused I got.
That happens very frequently, pray, study, have peace in Him. Be assured that when the time is right the Lord will provide the answers.
It all goes back to how I feel about the church I attend. If everything they teach is wrong than how could God bless their ministry so much. There are so many wonderful people in our church and our pastor really cares about people. My husband said to me, that he knows that what he believes is right because of the men who have made an impact on his life who were great examples to him, and also because of the blessings God has given to our church because of the faithfulness of the people in it. I could not argue with that at all! I AM confused.
Remember what Christ said to the Seven churches in Revelation? These Words were not for only those churches at that time but for all churches through this age.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
And we also have His Words in regard to the Judgment Day;
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
As Ray asks in his papers; Who is Jesus addressing here, unbelievers, Muslims, Hindu's? No, He is addressing those who do works in His name, the christian churches.
This week we are having Vacation Bible School. The family that is doing it seem so genuine and really concerned for the lives of kids. They have given their lives over to all these things thay they hope will lead people to Christ. They are committed and determined and they aren't just talking, they live it.
We do not know what God's ultimate plan for these folks other than to be saved at some point, in this age or the next. But as far as "lead people to Christ" only God does that.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up, at the last day.
To me, it seems like such a cruel joke for these people to really believe that they are making a serious difference in this world, and one day they will learn they were wrong. It just doesn't seem right.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
On the other hand, I don't want to believe that God is going to torture people in the lake of fire forever. And that is the premise that they operate on. My husband doesn't see it. He goes right back to, "What are the people who believe what you believe doing to get souls saved? Where is their fruit?" I don't know what to say to him.
Read this article again Bambam, it should give you some comfort.
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
And today, I am extremely depressed. I still don't know what to believe. To think that all of those dear people are living a lie just doesn't seem right, or fair, or sane. It seems so cruel.
Remember at the last Conference Ray spoke about this "bizarre" plan of God? Bizarre to our human reasoning and understanding. (Romans 8:7)
My husband wants me to talk to our pastor, and I just do not feel comfortable doing that. I am angry. I am confused and I just keep thinking, why Lord? Why is this happening to me. My emotions are in a whirlwind and I feel like I am going crazy.
Welcome to His flock! ;)
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
I ask myself, "Have I been decieved by Satan into believing this stuff I have read on bibletruths?" I feel like I want to believe what I have found, but there are many things I am leaving behind if I do-and they are not bad things necessarily. I just do not know how to explain all of this, but i need some Godly counsel and I have no idea where to go for that except here.
Talk with the Lord continually, study and pick up His yolk, you do not have to have all questions answered today, He is with you Sister.
I want it to be so plain that I just can't deny it's the truth-but it isn't. It isn't that easy. I have been studying for nine months, and my husband says he does not see any fruit in me from all of this studying. I admit, I have been difficult to live with because of many reasons. But it does not mean God is not working in me.
It is not easy, perhaps your husband's blindness extends beyond believing God will torture much of His creation in an eternal hellhole of pain and torture because He is unwilling or unable to save them.
I have so much to do around my house as a wife, mom, and teacher, but I don't want to do anything because my heart is aching. I am sad, angry, confused-a basic mess. What am I supposed to do here? I don't want to parrot the truth from someone else. I want to know it, believe it in my heart, and give an answer to those who ask. I can't do that right now.
Continue to study and pray, keeping the faith, God works on His time schedule not ours.
If you have no counsel for me, at least I could use your prayers. It hurts. And no one understands this kind of pain, at least no one I know personally. Thank you. I just don't know what else to do.
You are in my prayers and I am sure I am not alone.
His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,
Joe
--- End quote ---
hillsbororiver:
CAN YOU ‘WIN’ SOULS FOR CHRIST?
All my life I heard of "winning souls for Jesus." It is taught throughout the whole world of Christendom. Christians are taught they must "witness for Jesus" and in so doing will "win" some souls for Jesus. Many Christians feel a definite need to try and reach people for Jesus before they die. The Christian teaching is that if anyone is not reached and persuaded to accept Jesus as his personal Saviour before he dies, then he will at death immediately go into the pagan Greek hell of hades and be tortured in fire for all eternity. Even after learning many of the Truths of God on bible-truths.com, people continue to ask me how they can fulfill their obligation to witness for Christ and become effective teachers of God’s Truths to their family, neighbors, or fellow parishioners.
Shocking as it might sound to most, the Scriptures know nothing of "winning souls for Jesus." It is a man-made doctrine of the carnal mind.
But isn’t there a Scripture somewhere that speaks of "winning souls?" No, not really.
Once only do we find any words regarding "winning souls" in the King James Bible:
"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise" (Prov. 11:30).
This verse, however, has absolutely nothing to do with saving the souls of those who believe in Jesus as their Saviour. The Hebrew word kal from which the word winneth was translated, is used hundreds of times in the King James, but only once is it translated into any form of the word "win." It means to, take, bring, fetch, acquire, rescue, etc., but "win" is a poor choice of words. Besides, spiritual salvation through Jesus Christ is not the topic of Proverbs 11:30. Two New Testament Scriptures:
In Phil. 3:8 we read, "…that I may win [Gk: ‘gain’] Christ…" and in I Pet. 3:1, "…they also may… be won [Gk: ‘gained’] by the conversation [conduct] of the wives…" The other dozen times this Greek word kerdaino is used, it is always ‘gain’ or ‘gained.’ Example: "…Lord you delivered unto me two talents: behold, I have gained [Gk: kerdaino] two other talents beside them" (Matt. 25:22).
Why didn’t the King James translate this: "…behold I have WON two other talents…?" Surely even these translators could see the implications of increasing our God-given talents by gambling with them for higher ‘WINNINGS.’
Christians need to get all this gambling terminology out of their heads when it comes to the doctrines of God. Salvation has nothing to do with winning some; loosing some; betting on statistical odds; taking chances, and all such Las Vegas crap table nonsense.
Salvation is not a matter of a first chance or a second chance or any chance. Salvation is "sure."
"SURELY, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He NOT, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us ALL? (Rom. 8:32, Concordant Literal New Testament).
GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN
"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).
It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.
It is GOD who does the calling:
"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).
It is GOD who does the dragging:
"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).
It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:
"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
Eventually this will include all mankind:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).
And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:
"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).
And let’s not forget:
"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).
Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don’t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal—minded men.
But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 "…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:
"For [‘for’ means ‘because’] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
rk12201960:
Hi Beth,
No matter how much you feel lost or out of control GOD is in CONTROL. ;D
This is what God feels you need, for what reason I'm not sure.
TRUSTin the LORD thy God with all your heart,soul, and mind.
How do we do this?
Ask in the name of Jesus and our Father will give it to you.
What seems fair or not fair is and idol of the heart. We put our emotions over trust in God.
No matter what Beth, God is in control,you have to trust Him.
We are praying for you.
Gods love, protection and wisdom to you Beth.
Randy
;D 8) ;D
skydreamers:
Hi Beth,
I can see you are going through a lot of turmoil right now and my prayers will be with you. This journey of having these truths revealed to us is not an easy one. It sets us apart from almost everyone we know and there will always be someone who will try to make us feel like we've gone off the deep end.
--- Quote ---It all goes back to how I feel about the church I attend. If everything they teach is wrong than how could God bless their ministry so much. There are so many wonderful people in our church and our pastor really cares about people. My husband said to me, that he knows that what he believes is right because of the men who have made an impact on his life who were great examples to him, and also because of the blessings God has given to our church because of the faithfulness of the people in it. I could not argue with that at all! I AM confused.
--- End quote ---
I understand your confusion about this. In the last two weeks I have been visiting with family and I've had the wonderful opportunity to share a little here and there. Most remarkably my sister in law was more open to consider what I was saying and was asking questions!....but just last year she was more closed to it than a brick wall....it is all in God's timing and hands and I'm not sure where he is going to take it from here. But my point is, even though she was more open to listen, her concerns centered around me not having a church to go to where I could be involved in "serving" Christ. She is very involved in her church. She feels I should go to church for Christian fellowship and if nothing else to witness to the truths I have come to see with people in the church. Well......most of us here knows how that would turn out and we are just not far enough along in our talks for me to explain to my sister why I couldn't do that.
My sister is still more in agreement with your husband:
--- Quote ---On the other hand, I don't want to believe that God is going to torture people in the lake of fire forever. And that is the premise that they operate on. My husband doesn't see it. He goes right back to, "What are the people who believe what you believe doing to get souls saved? Where is their fruit?" I don't know what to say to him.
--- End quote ---
There is a strong mandate in the church to "get out there and get souls saved". Well, first of all it is God that saves souls and it is God who does the leading and the drawing. If we feel that God has lead someone to us and wants to use us to witness then that's awesome, but this just isn't always the case. I would recommend reading Ray's paper on "Winning Souls for Jesus":
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
Beth, I too wish I had more clear answers to all of the concerns you raise. We are all in a process here of trying to get a deeper vision of what God wants us to know, and this is a struggle. Perhaps there is some comfort in knowing you are not alone in this struggle...
I look at my sister in law and admire and respect who she is and what she does. In many ways I feel she is a "better" Christian than I am and she certainly bears more fruit than I...and yet, after two years of studying these truths I continue to be more convinced and convicted that UR is the truth of the scriptures. Why has God shown this to me and not to her? Why is she afraid of this truth and I embrace it with joy and peace?? It is a mystery why God chooses who He does. I am least worthy...that's all I know.
I am humbled by the things that many people in the world (both within and without the church) are doing to care for people, animals and the planet. I struggle just to keep my day organized enough that my children are cared for....I struggle just to keep my head out of the clouds and get on with my day so all those menial tasks will finally get done. I want to just sit at the feet of Jesus and listen, just like Mary, but the pull of the world keeps us in the kitchen just like Martha.
Beth, if you and I are indeed part of the chosen, then we are being judged right now in the flesh because judgment begins at the house of God. We can embrace the chastening of the Lord knowing He is dealing with us as His children, who He loves. I seek for the truth in all things because I'd rather have it now than later, Lord willing. I don't believe in accidents or coincidences. God has brought you and I here to BT for a reason...and it's for a good and beneficial purpose, whether it's grooming for the chosen or not...it's all meant for our good and I truly believe someday we can look behind us and see with what loving hands the Lord fashioned us into another vessel...
Revelation 1:10-13
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet......And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned I saw....
It seems we rarely will understand what is happening to us while we are in the midst of the struggle, but down the road, we can turn back and see....
Peace and love to you,
Diana
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