What about this?

[sonofone]

I recently bought a book about why we should tithe,because I wanted to hear a detailed explanation of it and challenge what I personally believe. After reading the book I became very sad,because it dawned on me that people who see things differently from you really do in fact SEE THINGS differently than you. In the book the writer pointed to Abraham as having paid tithes as well as Jacob which he says clearly showed that tithing came before the law so the excuse that we are no longer under the law does not apply. He also mentioned in the new testament Jesus told the pharisees that while they paid the tithes of mint they left of the weightier matters,which Jesus than stated this you should have done and NOT left off the other. This he states is Jesus saying that Tithes should not be left off. Lastly he stated that the absence of any doctrinal teaching on tithes in the new testament was no indicator that tithes were not to be practiced;but rather that it was such a given that no further mention of it was necessary.He even went as far as to use the scripture lay every one of IN STORE as the lord has prospered you; as implied the Tithe. As I said when I read this it saddened me because for the first time I realized there was no hope in convincing a person who believes this of thinking any other way.I was also sad because it seems that with every truth you look at there seems to be at least one counter scripture that could be interpreted differently. For instance the doctrine of grace and not being under the law.Then you will read in the book of Acts where husband and wife were killed dead for lying to the holyghost.Doesent seem to be much grace and mercy there.

[DuluthGA]

Hi Sonofone,

Maybe you need to re-read Ray's tithing paper at the top of his home page.  Any seeming tithing confusions are cleared up neatly there.    Because after all, there is only one truth and God's Word never contradicts itself, right?

It's a matter both of discernment and revelation and if you have neither, perhaps God will give you discerning eyes and ears through someone he has inspired to be a teacher of His truths.

And I agree with you fully:  "As I said when I read this it saddened me because for the first time I realized there was no hope in convincing a person who believes this of thinking any other way." This is true only because it is not their time to be given to know yet, not because there are any problems with the Scriptures themselves.  There are not.

But I know what you mean.  For example, I compiled a bunch of verses on the theme of "we should be coming out of the world"..... there are 45-50 related verses on this.... but then I came upon a verse that Jesus speaks that seems to say the exact opposite of the theme:

Jhn 17: 15   I am not asking that Thou shouldst be taking them away out of the world, but that Thou shouldst be keeping them from the wicked one.

So.... it takes discernment, does it not, to put it all together?  That we are to of course be amid and among the world while we should be separating ourselves spiritually and on most worldly fronts.  We have to go through the process!  Voila, no scripture contradiction involved!

This matter of God-given spiritual discernment grows more with time in Him.  You will come to have even more understandings open up within...I think, if you earnestly seek.  We all experience growth in these areas over time and will continue to do so.  Every single one of us on this earth will one fine day learn all of His righteousness.  It is very much a process and it definitely does not occur overnight.

So hang on to hope! 
Janice

[DuluthGA]

Hi again Sonofone,

I didn't have time to finish my first post to you.  To address your wondering about God immediately causing Ananias and Sapphira's death, first of all I would offer that we don't always know why God does things... just because of the nature of God being God.  "My ways are not your ways" etc.  Plus:

John 9: 2-3   And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So to me, God not only is God, but God has His works and His methods which are beyond our knowledge of finding out but are presented to us nevertheless in His Word.  My insight into God's loving divine plan is that He IS LOVE and he loves us all, and that although I may wonder or question some scriptures/concepts/insights, I still give Him the honor and the glory and trust Him ultimately for everything, good and bad, that He is operating it all perfectly with loving intentions.... for us all! 

Further don't forget that scenarios in scriptures are to be used for our example and admonishment.

And finally, in this email to Ray:  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4866.0.html, Ray uses this particular incident as an example:

"Ananias and Sapphira were decidedly NOT two of God's Chosen Elect. They were CALLED, but not chosen, and like all "called" but NOT chosen, they could NOT obey from the heart and be among those in the first resurrection to reign with Jesus."

Keep seeking and questioning! 
Janice

[insanezenmistress]

    i absolutly know this frustration.

When one goes off to seek truth and then finds many many interpretations of the same truth. It can drive a person nuts. literally. i have been almost to suicide over "Lord which truth is yours"

He hasnt told me everything YET, but happilly he preserved my life while i wait on him.  Along the way learned that for every knowledge and truth you discover you will also find rebuttal. Each person pursuedes himself according to his knowledge.

We know the source of true truth is God, so we keep trusting him. We also know that no man has "got it" so we take Pauls words that each person must be fully pursueded in their hearts. We know that the Holy SPirit also teaches us inso far as we are able to recieve, so we MUST remain flexable to concider his revelations in light of truth already learned.  The GOD that is all TRUTH must have a truth and an interpretation that is wholly correct, yet he also speaks to each of theses individauls in their way of understanding.

But then what do we do with people who seem very opposed to what seems plain to ourselves?.... The Atheist asks us the same quesiton, to them it seems painfully obvious that the old testament god was .....shall we say less that savory. You cant get them beyond their outrage. And you cant get past a persons smug religion either, for them it is obvious what ever they belive.

My oppinon on the matter is that since the mind of Christ is so large, he is able to impart different veiws of truth to each of his people. These people might have individaul theology that serves to guide their living and belief but anything they learn in life that is of truth, or causes them to see more clearly the way of the Lord, has only one source.

Jesus has a call on YOUR life, to teach YOU what he has for you. And we would all liek to see the world do it jsut like we have learned but that is a fruitless prayer. It is best not to worry about them but also important that we dont worry over ourselves with so many interpretations out there.

At some point you have to call yourself settled, because the TRUTH is that there is NO END of arguement and difference. You will never find a perfect teacher who stands unopposed. You will never even have a complete revelation for yourself....and Lord have mercy if you do because then YOU would be the one the world lines up to oppose.

the biggest lesson i have learned is to WAIT.

Become famillier with the Holy Spirit within you. Trust, he lets you knwo the truth for you. And should you come along a few years form now and find a deeper well of truth to dive into, then Dive.  Before you found this place you where dove in, and now you swim here.

Bottom line is Christ is going to conform your mind to His own, and he does this by working with in you, not by theology alone. Theology is a way to have witness.... The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and also  the spirit (you) the water (flow of truth) and the Blood (Christ's mercy) We offtian dont live our lives any better by conforming our minds to ciritan thoughts and teachigns and having the right form of theology. Instead we live our lives by conforming to the working of the Holy SPirit.

We are not intellectaully saved. [/i]

[sonofone]

Thank both of you for your post.I make myself vulnerable to all who view this site by posting my questions. I have gone ten years now in total silence,having no one to share my thoughts with,and now I have found this site,and these people. So I decided to go for it. I am going to continue to to expose myself if you will in hopes of coming out like pure gold. Gold has to go through the fire to burn off all impurities,and for me this is part of my process. I hope that all will understand this and help me in my walk with God. There will be more questions and comments to come, so bear with me.To insane your post has especially blessed me and has spoken directly to my heart and like a arrow aimed for a particular target has found it's mark. So I thank God for you in allowing him to use you. On a different note I am surprised to ave heard from so few people on this site. While I no I should not pass any judgement in this regard,I am just a little perplexed by the silence to say the least.

[Falconn003]

If you still have the receipt......go back and get a book on waterfalls or mountains....ect.....they are so majestic in nature......will bring you more peace and serenity then any man made idea on tithe book, would ever do good for you


Rodger

[YellowStone]

Thank both of you for your post.I make myself vulnerable to all who view this site by posting my questions. I have gone ten years now in total silence,having no one to share my thoughts with,and now I have found this site,and these people. So I decided to go for it. I am going to continue to to expose myself if you will in hopes of coming out like pure gold. Gold has to go through the fire to burn off all impurities,and for me this is part of my process. I hope that all will understand this and help me in my walk with God. There will be more questions and comments to come, so bear with me.To insane your post has especially blessed me and has spoken directly to my heart and like a arrow aimed for a particular target has found it's mark. So I thank God for you in allowing him to use you. On a different note I am surprised to ave heard from so few people on this site. While I no I should not pass any judgement in this regard,I am just a little perplexed by the silence to say the least.

Hi Son of One,

Sadly it is all to easy getting caught up in this life, and I do apologize for my silence. Welcome to the forum, and please share of yourself, where you are coming from and where you hope go.

I believe you have learned a very valuable lesson. I will quote from your orignal post: "As I said when I read this it saddened me because for the first time I realized there was no hope in convincing a person who believes this of thinking any other way.I was also sad because it seems that with every truth you look at there seems to be at least one counter scripture that could be interpreted differently. For instance the doctrine of grace and not being under the law.Then you will read in the book of Acts where husband and wife were killed dead for lying to the holyghost.Doesent seem to be much grace and mercy there."

Let me first comment on why some can ONLY see 'their' truth.

Rom 11:8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."* Deut. 29:4; Isaiah 29:10

They can ONLY see the truth that has been given them to see. Who amongst us can SEE everything even today? But it has been given to us the ability to see Truth.

Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.  

But what is it that we see, or hear? It is God's truth as it is revealed to us. It is given to some to see more and hear more than others; likewise, it is not given that we all see or hear the same things at the same time.

But the SIMPLE LIBERATING TRUTH is that anyone of us, can only see or hear what God wants un to hear. Unfortunately, not even Ray can give sight to truth before God's time. Each one of us should be patient with any one blindly groping for truth, because God has them here for a reason. Thankfully, with the help of the Spirt, patience can be had:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Patience is in good company too.

Love to you in Christ,
Darren

[sonofone]

Darren I so appreciate the spirit of your response,as well as the detailed information within. Let me say that I am in agreement with you and thank you for helping me. Let me also say that I welcome every response whether I agree with it or not. Whether I find it helpful at the present time or not. So I ask each of you who view this post and have something they feel they could share or add please do so. I promise you will not hear me bite your head off,although I might have a followup to your response, it's how I learn. Iron sharpens Iron God Bless.

[hillsbororiver]

On a different note I am surprised to ave heard from so few people on this site. While I no I should not pass any judgement in this regard,I am just a little perplexed by the silence to say the least.

Hi sonophone,

I can understand your frustration in regard to this, I am positive (I rarely use that term anymore but I use it here confidently) that many others share our frustration as well. We post something of extreme interest (to us) and watch the topic wither and drop into oblivion. This I think is one of the reasons some rarely post or start a topic or even eventually stop visiting here, they are not always getting the feedback they desire.

Part of this must be attributed to our need to develop patience, another reason may be the Lord denying us any instant gratification in regard to starting a popular topic where many contribute to and expand a given post. Who knows if that message or topic speaks to a guest or someone who does not feel comfortable writing (for whatever reason) but really needed to hear what was written, could He be using us to further His purpose even as we are unaware? Could we possibly hear the Lord telling us in the next age, "well done servant, you provided for the brethren without an earthly reward, here is your heavenly reward!"

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe     

[sonofone]

THANKS FOR THE POST JOE.I AGREE WHOLE HEARTEDLY AND WILL TRY TO KEEP THIS IN MIND FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. THANKS AGAIN.

[iris]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your post!!!
I think I fall into the category of not feeling comfortable about writing what I feel. I have a really hard time putting just how I feel into words. But I read all the posts and I have been helped greatly and have been able to see and understand better, questions I have had about different things. At this time I feel this is where God wants me to be. Maybe down the road he (God) will lead me to make some great big meaningful posts. But for now that's not to be. Mean while, I will just continue reading and I would like to thank you Sonofone for all your posts.


Peace and Love
Iris

[Sue Creamer]

Joe,
Ditto what Iris said!!  I really needed to be reminded of who is really in charge of this forum.  Funny thing is, some days I make up my mind that I have nothing to say that anyone would want to hear and promise myself I will just listen and learn,  then I turn right around and post...!!!   

Iris,
So good to read your post..!!!  The first day I posted here in the forum, everyone here greeted me so kindly.  I was nervous, excited, and a bit sad because I felt so tiny amidst giants, people who are so articulate, who could write, speak and were organized in their thoughts.  God used your gentle response, and your own feelings of sadness, much like my own, to let me know I am who he made me to be, and  he wants you here just as he wants me here regardless of our own self doubts. 

What you said that day did matter to me...!!!! 
Thank you...

 

[dawnnnny]

I also DITTO Iris   

[DuluthGA]

I TOO DITTO IRIS!!

It is only by the grace of our almighty God that I am able to "utter" a single "sound" on this forum.  I praise His holy name.

"It is through knowing the love of Christ - which transcends knowledge - that we may be completed for the entire complement of God."  ~Don Bast

YAY! 
Janice