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Author Topic: Please don't build another church!!  (Read 3537 times)

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DuluthGA

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Please don't build another church!!
« on: August 15, 2007, 04:00:36 AM »

Please "dear" Churchianity  >:(, don't build another church.... and here's why....

Heb 9: 24     For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Eph 2: 18-22     For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Acts 7: 48-50     Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?  Hath not my hand made all these things?

Acts 17: 24      God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

1Cor 12: 13     For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body [the church body], whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

THEN WHERE DOES GOD DWELL???

John 14: 23
      Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL COME UNTO HIM, AND MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM.

Eph 1: 22-23    And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 5: 30, 32    For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones…… This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Col 1: 18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

Col 1: 24    I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for you, and am filling up in my flesh, in His stead, the deficiencies of the afflictions of Christ, for His body, which is the ecclesia

1Pet 2: 6-7     Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

John 2: 19   Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Mark 14: 58   We heard him [Jesus] say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Eph 5: 23b   even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body [of the church.]

1Pet 2: 4-5   Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. [NKJV]

1Cor 3: 9     For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1Cor 3: 16-17     Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2Cor 6: 16-17a   And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,

1Tim 3: 15   But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church [church = Greek: “ecclesia” = “called out ones”] of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1Cor 6: 19   Or are you not aware that your body is a temple of the holy spirit in you, which you have from God, and you are not your own? [CLNT]

John 4: 23   “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”

2Thes 2: 4   Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, [note: ourselves, not a physical temple] shewing himself that he is God.

Matt 18: 20   For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Rom 12: 2   And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1Cor 7: 23     Christ has paid the price for you. Don't become slaves of human beings. [NIrV]

Col 3: 23    All, whatsoever you may be doing, work from the soul, as to the Lord and not to men,   [CLNT]

1Kings 8: 27     But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

2Chron 2: 6    But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

1Cor 1: 9    God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

2Cor 13: 14    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the communion of the holy spirit be with you all! Amen! [CLNT]

2Cor 6: 14   Do not come into close association with unbelievers, like oxen yoked with asses. For what is there in common between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what partnership has light with darkness?  [Weymouth N.T.]

1John 1: 3   That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2Thes 2: 15       Consequently, then, brethren, stand firm, and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us [the apostles], whether through word or our epistle. [CLNT]

Matt. 15:3, 7a    But He answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandments of God by your traditions?… You hypocrites…

Col 2: 20-22     Wherefore, if ye are dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) according to the commandments and doctrines of men? [Not God] Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh.  [The Webster Bible]

Matt 15: 6b-9     “Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

John 4: 23   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Heb 4:14      Having, then, a great Chief Priest, Who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, we may be holding to the avowal.  [CLNT]

Heb 8: 1     Now this is the sum of what is being said: Such a Chief Priest have we, Who is seated at the right of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens[CLNT]

Heb 10: 21     And having an high priest over the house of God;

1Tim 2: 5      For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Matt 6: 6    But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

1Tim 6: 5    useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

Acts 20: 29-30    Now I am aware that, after I am out of reach, burdensome wolves will be entering among you, not sparing the flocklet.  And from among yourselves will arise men, speaking perverse things to pull away disciples after themselves. [CLNT]

Rom 12: 5    So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Cor 12: 12, 26    For even as the body is one and has many members, yet all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, thus also is the Christ....  And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. [CLNT]

Rom 2: 28-29   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

2Cor 4: 10    Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.



*********
Quote from L. Ray Smith:

“If there is no obedience (to His Word), there is no true worship."

**********

From a bible study of Ray's:

Ironically, in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, "church" is mentioned in but two Scriptures.  In Matt 18: 17 Jesus refers to "the church" and in Matt 16: 18 He refers to "My church" which He said HE would build.  And the seven churches in Rev. 2 & 3 are representative of and the personification of the church that Jesus Christ built.  It was THAT church that Jesus built that Paul, the Judaic Pharisee, persecuted.  Jesus prophesied that the church would be persecuted and scattered:

"And Jesus said unto them, ALL YE shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, 'I will smite the Shepherd [the Christ], and the sheep shall be SCATTERED." [Mark 14: 27]

The church multiplied in numbers very quickly after the Resurrection, but persecution multiplied also:

"And Saul was consenting unto his [Stephen's] death.  And at that time there was a GREAT PERSECUTION against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were ALL SCATTERED ABROAD throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." [Acts 8: 1]


This post was last updated on 12/9/07











« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 08:10:00 PM by DuluthGA »
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dogcombat

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2007, 10:54:27 AM »

Simply put,

Don't BUILD Church, BE Church.


Ches
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DizzyD

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2007, 12:30:18 PM »

                                   Hello Janice
                                           For some reason this a.m while  I was reading your post and I was goin over in my head my conversation with my brother about the trinity (he holds to the doctrine) and a verse you posted just sort of stuck out that to me......John 1:3; That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.         Seems to me John really slighted the Holy Spirit and left him out of the loop if he (the Holy Spirit) is in fact a part of the trinity......Just something to ponder
                                                        Bud
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Harryfeat

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2007, 08:31:57 PM »

Hey Janice,

It is certainly a great reminder that we are Christ's church and there is nothing physical about it except perhaps us for the time being.

Thanks for the reminder. 


Your post got me to thinking along another line however.  If we called them meeting halls or hotel auditoriums would it be ok to build more?  If not, can we meet at your place for a group fellowship of all the  forum members? ;) ;) j/k of course

How would I fellowship if I lost electricity or access to the internet for a year?????

While I recognize the deeper spiritual meaning of the word church and the idol of the heart of many buildings labeled "churches" and what happens in them, there still needs to be a place for those who want to meet physically in His name and pursue His truth.  Granted that most of us have homes or apartments that cannot accommodate more than a few so where to then? [I don't have a mountain side or a desert near me so that's out ;D ;D]

Coming out of babylon meams something different for me than resigning from a particular "church".  It means coming out of worldliness.  Political, economic and religion are all steeped in the world we need to come out of.  Granted that pulling out of a particular church might be the first step for us but it is a ongoing process of shedding that worldliness.

Mother Theresa comes to mind as a person, a nun, moreover,  is such an enigma to me because she didn't break away from her church.  Her example of selflessness in devoting her life working for the poor always seemed to me to be a shadow of what the elect will be doing after the resurrection.  There are certainly many ways you can point to as to how you think the false doctrines and association with a church and its associated religion have stymied her. You could certainly point to Revelations , for instance, and say that if she did it all in fear of ET then she along with all the rest in fear, etc. will be thrown into the LOF. 

The key I think for me here is to always keep myself focused and remember to not let those things get in the way of following Christ and His truth.  Fellowship here has helped me in that focus.

Sorry about they change in direction but I wanted to share with you how the blessing of you post has caused me, by thinking about the alternatives, to realize once again how fortunate I am to be able to fellowship here.

be blessed
feat

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DuluthGA

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 10:11:16 PM »

Thanks all,

Ches, your post would make a great bumper sticker!  :D

Ya know, Bud, I thought of that too while I was compiling these verses!  It's another definite good one to point out to those struggling with the trinity concept.  And coiincidentally, there is a guy in my URist meeting group who is having this exact struggle.  I will share this with him!  :)

I very much enjoyed your thoughtful post, feat.  It made me wish I could host an early New Testament-style home gathering.  :) Our group is starting in a small way to meet in homes, so it may be possible soon.  I also especially liked your reference to Mother Theresa, and I am definitely agreed....and great point that...  'coming out of Babylon.... also means coming out of worldiness.'  I have also been compiling verses related to that particular theme titled, Out of This World."  I'll be posting it soon. 

When I think about being a rather stauch and proud Republican not too long ago... and loved to keep up with the national political scene... and never thought twice about going to war...oh sigh... what a transformation my Lord has brought to me.

I notice coming out of the world and its ways is generally not a very popular topic, probably because although we may be completely out of a church, we are all still touched by the world systems and influences around us, and those effects are much more subtle and insidious.  Very worthwhile thought, feat, you bless me.  Thank you.

Peace and joy to all,  :)
Janice


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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2007, 10:54:28 PM »

OMG Feat-  no 'puter? no internet? No no...forum....no Ray????  How would I fellowship????  Wow that just jumped out at me!
Lets see, I have my notes, my copies, my Bible.  I would have to fellowship w/.... ..  THE LORD! :D

The ecclessia is already the called out ones....so from among the ecclesia there would have to be more called out....

Good thread for thinking about!
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dawnnnny

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2007, 11:53:35 PM »

I already copied the LOF series into a word document (just in case).  It was like almost 800 pages  :)   

Could I ask what UR is?  I've seen it a few times and I'm curious. 

Has anyone read anything by Frank Viola?  I'm not sure what his theology is like (yeah, probably trinitarian) but he has some good thoughts on the NT church practices back in the first century....how they met in homes for worship, how it wasn't a "pew to pulpit" mentality like it is now.  Everyone entered in - imagine that!!!

Hope everyone had/has/or is having a great evening (haha, that made me think of recent studies on Rev. was/is/is to come)  I'm tellin ya, I'm awash with all this new stuff!
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DuluthGA

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 03:01:31 AM »

LOL Gena... I also call my computer my "pewter."  :D  And where the HELL would I be without it??  Being a URist has wrecked my fun of telling someone to "go to hell."  Now it's... "well, if I believed in a hell, I'd tell ya to go there!"   ;D

Hello Dawn, buddie girl  :)...  UR stands for Universal Reconcilation or Universal Reconciliationist, and its counterpart:  CU = Christian Universalism or Christian Universalist... both for those theologies and adherents that believe that God will save ALL of His creation, humans and messangers or spirit beings, both benevolent and evil.  Done deal.  Scriptures do not tell us specifically about God's plans for animals, insects, etc.  Now you know what you can call yourself!  Take your pick!  Neither is easy to roll off the tongue, however.

I will research Viola when I have time because I'm very interested in the N.T. ekklesia, but since trinitarianism didn't come about [by the RCC] until several centuries later, I doubt that that's involved.  Will PM you what I found when I am able.   :)

Have great night!  Let us pray together tonight for strength in Him. Amen!

With joy, Janice



p.s.  Here is that link about Adam and Eve I mentioned in our PM today:  :)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html

Go two-thirds of the way down and there is it, just a couple of pages.  I'd be very interested in your response!  :):D;D:D:)



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dawnnnny

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Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 04:04:35 AM »

Hi Janice,

Well, silly me forgot about the "go 2/3 way down" instructions and started reading the first transcript.  It was very interesting but nothing about Adam and Eve.  Then I remembered  :)

So I just finished reading the first part.  I will finish tomorrow and then re-read it a couple times.  I'll be sure to let you know when I finish and my thoughts. 

Thank you so much for remembering and for the UR translation (is that from the orginal greek or hebrew?)  haha   ;D   
Ok I'm tired, been a long, full day, but a good one!

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LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 11:57:29 PM »

Hi Janice,

You are a hoot! Ha ha, now you can't tell anyone to go to hell!  ;D Funny!

Those are great scriptures on what is the true church. There is so much effort spent on all these structures that are basically useless. But man takes so much pride in them. In the end, they will all be rubble, but God's true church will endure.

Love,

Ursula
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SandyFla

  • Guest
Re: Please don't build another church!!
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2007, 05:07:32 PM »

                                   Hello Janice
                                           For some reason this a.m while  I was reading your post and I was goin over in my head my conversation with my brother about the trinity (he holds to the doctrine) and a verse you posted just sort of stuck out that to me......John 1:3; That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.         Seems to me John really slighted the Holy Spirit and left him out of the loop if he (the Holy Spirit) is in fact a part of the trinity......Just something to ponder
                                                        Bud

Paul does the same thing - over and over. Open any of the books he wrote, and they all basically start out like this: "Grace and peace to you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ." No mention of the Holy Spirit whatsoever.
Sandy
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