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is it when you exept jesus as you savior

1 (9.1%)

when you stop sinning

0 (0%)

when you come in the knowlege of the truth

2 (18.2%)

or is it after you die

8 (72.7%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Voting closed: August 20, 2007, 12:25:03 AM

[johnxx]

Most Christians don't know when a person is born again. Does anyone knows what born again really means.

[Jackie Lee]

I had believed born again was a spiritual rebirth and this can't happen in this life can it?
Good question, hope someone has a good link to Ray's teaching.

[Kat]

Hi John,

I think this email will cover your question and then some 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.0.html ---------

jesus saves us from SIN AND DEATH right
Ray i was reading romans 6, it says Jesus died and we died, he resurrects and so we do, so we are not under the LAW, so does it mean if i am saved and reborn, I can no longer  sin, and if i do, do I have to repent again?? and can I sin again if I have been reborn?
plz tell me the answer
Thanks a lot

   
    Dear Carlos:

    Your question shows that you are at least thinking a little deeper than the average Christian. If one tries to fit the doctrines of Christendom into the teachings of the Scriptures, he will go spiritually insane. It cannot be done. Christian dogma is a theology of contradictions upon contradictions.

    Example: When a follower of Jesus dies, he immediately goes to heaven AS A HUMAN BEING. Problem: what then do we do with the all-important doctrine of "the resurrection of the DEAD?"
    It becomes less than useless, totally unnecessary, completely contradictory, and blasphemes the Word of God and "ONLY hope" that a believer has for a future life. Pretty important, HUH?

     

    If you had attended our Fall Bible Conference in Mobile you would have learned that no one is literally "born again," in this lifetime. While it is true that we will be "born" of God in the Resurrection (which doctrine is completely useless and unnecessary if Christians go to heaven at death), however while still in the flesh, we are "begotten" of God through His Holy Spirit. The problem of understanding this arises partly because theologians do not explain to their followers that the words "begotten" and "born" have but ONE Greek word to represent both. When we are truly "born" of God, Jesus said that we will be POWERFUL AND INVISIBLE "like the wind."

    Back to your question:  I have stated for some years now, over and over, that we must pay closer attention to ALL THE WORDS of a Scripture. Notice how you statements change when we actually follow all the words of these Scriptures.

    You state:  "Jesus died and we died, he resurrects and so we do, so we are not under the LAW, so does it mean if i am saved and reborn, I can no longer  sin, and if i do, do I have to repent again?? and can I sin again if I have been reborn?"

    Now let me comment:

    "Jesus died...."

    COMMENT:  True. He was physically dead without consciousness or life of any kind.

    "...and we died.."

    COMMENT:  Yes, but we did NOT physically die without consciousness or life of any kind. We symbolically died with Jesus in baptism.   

    "...He resurrects and so we do..."

    COMMENT:  Yes, Jesus was resurrected, we are NOT resurrected from being literally, physically dead, neither do we as yet have a "spiritual body"--I Cor. 15:44-50.  We symbolically and spiritually died to the "old man of sin."  And next notice HOW we are resurrected: "AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also [also....WHAT?] should walk in NEWNESS OF LIFE"  (Rom. 6:4). Not in NEWNESS OF A NEW SPIRITUAL BODY.  Continuing: "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death [pictured by baptism], we SHALL [that's future tense, not past tense] BE also in the likeness of His resurrection"  (Verse 5).  And when will that be?  When WE are resurrected FROM THE DEATH with a new SPIRITUAL BODY.

    "...so we are not under the LAW.."

    COMMENT:  True, but hardly anyone understands what that means, and I cannot take the time to explain that whole doctrine in a short email.

    "...so does it mean I am saved and reborn....?"

    COMMENT;  NO, neither. We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND."  Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead.

    Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63).  Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us:  "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]...LIKEWISE

    R-E-C-K-O-N  you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord"  (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass.

    "...I can no longer sin........do I have to repent.........can I sin after being reborn?"

    COMMENT:  We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12).  We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you"  (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US"  (I John 1:8-10).

    God be with you,

    Ray