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Purpse for the Crucifixion
Falgn0n:
Hi all
I have a question, that on the surface and perhaps to most of you will seem like rather a fundamental thing, but I have been wonderin about this for a while, and I just can't arrive at a satisfactory answer...
WHY did Jesus die on the cross?
Now don't all jump up and scream at me... ::)
I know and realize that He did it save all mankind...
but WHY DIE? We already know that we have no power to choose our own destiny, no free will
so WHY did He come here to DIE?
I emailed Ray, and He said that Jesus CHOSE to die for us in order to demonmstrate His Great Love for us...Ok...
but that's not enough... there's gotta be more to it than that...
He also said I could find a teaching here in the forums somewhere, Does anyone know where it is?
Does anyone have a thought on this...
Falgnon.
rocky:
IMO,
Jesas came to fulfill the promises made to Abraham, that through his seed, all families would be blessed.
He was made of a woman, made under the law (Gal 4:4).
He came to show the way to obtaining the inheritance/promises to Abraham. The way was different than the method of the law abiding jews. They focused on a natural, physical means to the blessing, self pride and self potential.
Christ taught and demonstrated that only through rebirth, a spiritual God ordained birth (representative of Isaac, not Ishmael) by faith can one obtain the prize.
This was through death to the old (law, jewish, natural system) and by resurrection (circumcision of the heart).
Flesh and blood (self effort) can not enter the kingdom of God.
He was the forerunner to the completed plan of salvation and guarantee'er (sp??) that all would be saved, but in an order and a method that involved mercy to some, hardening to others, but in the end, LIFE to all.
In Adam (flesh, law abiding system, old covenant) all die, IN Christ (spiritual birth, by faith) all will be made alive.
jmo,
hillsbororiver:
Thanks to Kat we have the transcripts to the Nashville Conference, the audio is also available. Here is a tidbit from the topic;
Isa 53:5 ‘But He was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon Him was the punishment that made us whole, and by His bruises we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have all turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.”
So not only did He have to carry all of our sins and shortcomings and everything else to the cross. But all His life He carried the pain, the sickness, the disease and the infirmaries in His body. Why? Because God is not going to put us through something that He is not willing to go through Himself! That’s why we follow in His footsteps, see.
Read it all here;
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
His Peace to you,
Joe
(Link to audios)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html
Kat:
Hi FalgnOn,
I'm glad you have come here :)
Here is another point about the greatest of all sacrifices.
Those that do not believe that Christ was raised, can have no hope for a resurrection either.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
V. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
v. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
v. 19 If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
But we know that Jesus was the Firstfruit, in His resurrection, now we all have hope to be resurrected.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
v. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
v. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
This is from the Nashville conference also, that Joe was referring to, it will give you another aspect of why Christ died.
It is on audio 7B, link below
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7B.mp3
This was taken from the transcript posts 3-4 'WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html --------
Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth. He did something to acquire God’s glory, something. Because He had it and He didn’t get it for nothing.
God wants creatures, He wants children, He wants sons and daughters. He has a desire to have something like Himself. But for us to be like Him, we have to go through some pretty tough stuff. So He sent His Son as an example, as how you can go through it and never get angry or upset with God. And to never turn against your fellowman, because of what you have to go through. He lived a perfect life, of the perfect man, sick and diseased, in pain and He lived it perfectly. But God was living in Him, the Father was going through it just as much as He was, you see.
Christ had to die, it said He had to die for our sins. That’s true, that’s the scripture, Christ died for our sin. But then we have a scripture here that doesn’t mention sin.
John 3:16 "For God so(thus) loved the world,”
Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think it’s saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying. What this is saying is God loved us, in this way. This is the manner and way in which He loved us. In this way He loved the world.
“…that He gave His only begotten Son,”
Ok, He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.
“…that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”
Of course the Bible is written so man don’t understand it. That’s why some of these things are put in there, “that who-so-ever believes.” God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe. So the ‘who-so-ever’ is going to be everybody, ok.
But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die? Why? Why did the Father sacrifice His Son? Why did He have to do that? HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT! He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD! Why did He?
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure. That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them. How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value? What can I do? I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life. I have all that to give, but they will say, you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have. What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you? And God said, I will DIE!
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness. If you have immortality you can’t die.
So He made a Son. He made Him great. And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son. Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
Then they will know We love them.
Then they will know.
-----------------------------------------------------
I hope this will help your understanding of the greatest act of love that was ever performed :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
p.s. thanks Joe, we were typing at the same time.
sasscell:
Hi all, here's a scripture, I didn't notice in the previous posts, I may have missed it though.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood;and without shedding of blood is no remission.
But, this begs the question, why did God decide that death is the payment for sin?
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