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[dawnnnny]

Hi everyone.

I wanted to ask if anyone has had any experience with people who hold to the Oneness/Jesus only doctrine.  I'm asking because I have a good friend who holds this belief.  So, he's very anti-trinitarian, as a matter of fact, he is the one who first got me to look deep at my own trinitarian beliefs a few years back.

He's been looking over Ray's website and I think he agrees that there isn't a hell and even all mankind being saved but he says that Ray's belief on God/Jesus (Jesus being the son of God) is wrong. 

From what I understand, Oneness people believe that Jesus had two natures - one divine and one human.  So all the verses where it speaks of Jesus being the "son" of God - son really means "flesh" referring to the human nature.  So when Jesus was crucified, the human nature died but not the divine nature.

I can honestly say that this makes more sense than the trinity doctrine but for me, it still brings up lots of questions about LOTS of scriptures.  Every time I ask him about them, he says "that was the human nature, not his divine nature or vice versa).

Also, he is one who speaks in tongues and because he believes in Acts 2:38 ( Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ) he thinks that if you haven't spoken in tongues or been bap in Jesus (only) Name, then you JUST NEED REVELATION.

That's what he says when I try to talk about anything that doesn't line up with his beliefs, that I just need a revelation from God.

So its frustrating to me and sort of (in my opinion) puts up a brick wall to having any valid dialog on anything.  What's interesting is that he has expected me to be "open" to other perspectives (which I have been), yet he seems to think he's right, no discussion, because he's had this revelation.  I have never spoken in tongues and the belief has always been difficult for me (one that made me think there was something wrong with me because I hadn't done it).  I read Ray's paper on it.  I just don't know.  I don't ever want to say something like this isn't real because I haven't experienced it.  My daughter has, my son never has.  Perhaps on this I am truly still waiting for God to open my eyes/ears.

So I was curious if anyone had any experience and/or any advice for me.  Thanks for your help and have a blessed day!

Dawn

[Harryfeat]

Hey Dawn,

It was sort of a deja vu moment for me reading your post.  I can't even remember how many times I have been frustrated when told that you just have to have " ears to hear and eyes to see" or you just won't get it.  Maybe that is sort of like having a "Revelation."   

It is very hard when scripture is thrown at you without some sort of explanation of what perspective the person is trying to convey.  Perhaps having your friend wade through some of his pertinent verses with you will help you on your way to a revelation.  Sometimes, however, when we are taking someone through things we see a different interpretation and see the error in our original interpretation, especially if being questioned about the meaning.

What I am saying is that if you get him to help you through the scripture he believes supports his view, maybe he will have an unexpected revelation of his own.  Since he has been reading Ray's works, perhaps some of that perspective will suddenly hit him while he does so.  [It doesn't hurt to help it along here and there while you are at it]


I really don't have any solid advice for you except to be patient and continue on with your own study.  God will drag him but not necessarily at the speed you would like.

be blessed
feat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Dawn

I do not believe that anything Ray writes is wrong. What I believe is that if one reads what Ray teaches, it can happen that because WE or I do not have sufficient insight or depth of comprehension into the ways and purposes of God, we can be tempted to believe that it is RAY who is wrong! This is much easier than coming to the realization that it is WE/I who do not see or comprehend the deeper wisdom of the Spirit of God as it is being revealed to us through the teachings coming to us via Ray.

I have seen often that members come into the Forum who admit openly to not fully grasping the depth and insights into these teachings, for example, the Myth of Free Will. We have all been indoctrinated by false teachings and have been lead by popular beliefs. It is a whole new paradime to reverse our direction into the unpopular direction and see what GOD says IS the Truth and GOD MEANS what HE SAYS. Many just do not believe Him.  It is by Gods Spirit that His Truths are revealed and God does this in a process of increments. It does not happen overnight but over a lifetime. At this time, many do not see or comprehend.

Also, I do not think that Ray woke up one morning and ZAP, he knew everything he writes and shares with us today. Daily is our walk with Christ. Daily are His revelations to those He chooses to make known the Wisdom and Knowledge of God.

To say that Ray's belief that God/Jesus Being the son of God is wrong, is actually anti-scriptural because it is not Ray who says Jesus is the son of God, it is God who says so through His Word. To argue someone on that point is perhaps quite pointless and would lead only to strife. My advise is stay out of debate or arguments. Your friend believes what he believes and to change his opinion against his will is going to leave him in the same opinion still as Ray also teaches! 

Here are a few points of revelation from Ray that came in response to a question  that I hope will settle all your questions and doubts. I believe the revelation here fits with your seeking to understand the depths and Wisdom of HIS SPIRIT and the Mind of Christ

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega--the Beginning and the End.

Adam was flesh and blood--Jesus was made flesh and blood.

Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38)--Jesus was the Son of God (Heb. 1:5).

Adam died--Jesus died.

All die in Adam (I Cor. 15:22)--Jesus being of Adam and made flesh also DIED.

 

But Jesus has been resurrected to immortality--the "last Adam."

 

But notice carefully that Jesus is called the "LAST" Adam,

but He is called the "SECOND" man, not the "last" man,

as there will follow many more brothers and sisters (II Cor. 6:18, etc.)

God be with you,

Ray
 

My advise to you Dawn is stay clear of doctrines that are not clear or ones that stir up confusion within you. There are MANY such doctrines and many half truths that are like land mines to the peace and sanctuary of the soul. Rely on the Spirit of Christ for your understanding. Keep clear of what others think they know or believe.

If someone else does not agree with Ray, that is not your problem and should not make it your problem. There are MANY who do not agree and even hate what Ray is teaching.

We are here now because we are called to be. There is much to learn and study and meditate upon and that should be your focus. Consider the alternative..... gather to yourself many teachers...against which the Scriptures warn NOT TO DO least anyone  fall prey to subtleties and contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination. 1 Tim 6:20

I know from experience that Ray is a Teacher of the things that are of God. I have learnt and am still learning! I believe that Ray is a Gift from Christ to us and that the teachings that are inspired of The Mind of Christ,  are what we all have here to share in abundance in BT. We have a feast of Truth here. Why even go elsewhere. There is SO much here to digest and assimilate and grow on!

As Feat says....continue on with your OWN study and I second that! 

Peace to you

Arcturus  

[dawnnnny]

Thank you feat and Arcturus,

I think I already knew what to do.  If he brings up these things I will just let him know that I'm doing my studying and he can do his 
I guess the frustration comes with the point that God hasn't (yet) given me clarification on this issue.  He's shown me what isn't truth (the trinity hoax), but he's still leading me slowly to other things.

Sometimes I think that if I don't have the godhead down right (sorry if that's not the correct word), that nothing else is going to make sense.  I know God is God and Jesus is God, yet there is ONE God.  Its still a little mind boggling but I'm confident HE will give me a clear understanding one day soon.

Bless both of you for helping me today.

Dawn