Tithing

[bhodge10]

The reason for the poll is I see that a lot of emails that Ray receives is about tithing. And most people who argue against Ray say that they receive more from God because they tithe versus when they don't. So this simple poll is just to see what your experiences have been.

[dawnnnny]

I've never tithed, mainly because (at first) I couldn't afford to.  But I have given many, many times.  I have been blessed by that giving in many ways (and rarely in possessions or wealth).  Even giving a dollar to a street person is a blessing.  I believe the biggest problem with tithing is that, for those who do it, it "excuses" them from ever doing anything else.  "As long as I write my check each month"  I've done my part. 

Giving needs to be "hands on", needs to be an "action" (beyond signing your name on a piece of paper).  We give in so many ways too, not just money, but time and kind words (of which I've received many in the short time I've been a part of this forum).  A kind word is more valuable than a mortgage payment in my opinion  

I don't expect a blessing from God when I give -- but I will say I struggle with expectations from the people in my life, when my gift goes unappreciated, etc.  But God and I are working on that.   

[Chris R]

The reason for the poll is I see that a lot of emails that Ray receives is about tithing. And most people who argue against Ray say that they receive more from God because they tithe versus when they don't. So this simple poll is just to see what your experiences have been.

Hi,

Rays Article on tithing has little to do with your question, and much to do with the scriptural truth concerning tithing itself. Read http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
As it will show that "money" was never a tithable commodity, as it is a sin to require anyone to tithe money.

However if we give, with the expectation of getting something back, we have lost the meaning of giving to begin with.


Peace

Chris R

[chuckt]

However if we give, with the expectation of getting something back, we have lost the meaning of giving to begin with.

send me $63 in accordence with psalms 63 and you will be blessed, sow a seed to day and expect a harvest

[Falgn0n]

ROFL!

I remember Chukt & Falcon from when I used to post here before, you guys are a gas! 

Chukt makes a sarcastic comment IN SUPPORT of what Chris was saying about giving in the expectation that you will get something back, and Falcon missed it entirely! (Unless I missed it entirely) 

Falgn0n.

My answer to the poll - I used to believe in tithing when i was in that other church. Partly because i wsa taught from the time i was a child to believe, partly because I needed the financial blessing.

But it was this very issue that first got me questioning what I once believed - No matter how steadfastly I tithed, NOTHING CHANGED in my financial or any other situation - and when I for a few months did not tithe, guess what - NOTHING CHANGED -LOL!

I began to seriously analyses the various teachings about tithing and sowing ( You must realise that these are two very different things in that church...) and eventually began to openly challenge these ideas.  I used to tell my homecell members that I did not believe that God REQUIRES us to pay a tithe.  I admitted that the only reason I did it was to make sure that my own financial situation was "covered" (Like insurance).

I admitted that every time I had ever given anything to the church, it was in the hope that I would receive something in return...

I told them I believed that this was the wrong reason and motive to be giving anything to anybody, so I just stopped giving to the church and started re-evaluating everything ELSE they taught and how that measured up to what I read in the Word and my what own personal experiences had been.

Suffice it to say, I eventually left that church.

"...the whole stay of wheat and the whole stay of water has been taken away..."

Falgn0n.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Rodger,

I am quite sure that Chuck is only being humorous, nothing more.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Beloved]

I am tired of hearing this topic on the board.

The carnal hate this topic and write nasty emails because.... it pricks their gourds.  Amen

A lot of people who read BT and like not paying tithes because that means they get to keep the 10 % and it too appeals to their heart (they also like getting out of hell and everyone beiing saved )

BUT ......People need to read on.... believers and followers of Christ.....may not Tithe .......but they need to be dying daily .... because flesh counts for nothing...  so.... we will not take anything with us.

Tithing as practiced by churches today is blasphemous.... it steals from the poor and feeds the lust of the flock by teaching this doctrine ... and worse it insults My Glorious God by teaching lies... like ......give your piddling 10% back,,,,, to Our Loving God ...WHO OWNS EVERYTHING]....so that your $$$$ lusts $$$ will be blessed.

The churches today have the capability to know exactly what each family makes. It uses volunteers to do most of their work or pays some staffers piddling.   Moreover they pays no taxes.

The take the money they get and waste it on lavish buildings and on themselves. They do enough good things to keep up appearances.

The churches are filled with a lot of good intentioned people but they are infants and carnal and are satisfied with the feel good life they have.

When the church does go out to help, they make sure that the whole world knows..... TV coverage, flyers, bulletins etc. They do not take money out of their coffers to do this ... no ....they go out and ask for more donations and volunteers.

These "Faith Based programs" being set up around the country by the Republicans are a farce too.... now they can even steal from Caesar ...... and why not?

We are told to take care of widows and orphans and those in prison.  Yes we should as folllowers of Christ help materially all who have needs that come into our lives , when we have the means. We should do it in secret and without expectation of any repayment or thanks

But remember the orphans are those who do not have the Father because they have rejected HIM

The widows do not have a husband  because under the Law when Jesus died....unlike spiritual Israel... they are  now alone and do not even know it. They are unaware that He is preparing His bride.

Those in prison are those that are bound by sin.

We need to lve these because He loved us first.

Last of all
Do not forget that we need to feed the ox and not muzzle him.

1Ti 5:18 for the scripture is saying: "A threshing ox you shall not be muzzling,and "Worthy is the worker of his wages."

(1Ti 5:17 CLV)  Let elders who have presided ideally be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who are toiling in word and teaching,

Our OX at BT will never ask for money because he knows that God will open the eyes and ears of those that know what they should do.


Beloved
   The churches have money to burn, and boy do they know how to spend it.

[Andrew]

In response to the tithing issue I am in total agreement with the papers Ray wrote on the subject, it actually sickens me to know that these peddlers, thieves call them what you like are getting away with it all the time.

In the "church" I came out of recently (charismatic pentecostal) they have pastors, senior pastors and founding pastors I mean really now, who is the greater of the pastors trilogy. I call them owners (like business owners) the rest work there, the "owners are never in need unlike their poor congregations that they bleed dry constantly.

The fact that they use unscriptural means to generate their wealth while some of the congregation have no food to put on the table, their answer to these in need is that they don't tithe or they must be involved in some serious sin.

It sickens me what these wolves are doing but then again God allows evil for His perfect purpose and will, I mean God knows what he is doing in these peoples lives too, nothing happens without purpose in His creation, so we also need to trust God in this, knowing that they to will be saved.

I am not saying we must ignore these wolves but keep in mind they are also in Gods perfect plan.

It's great to be freed from the bondage of mans doctrines like this one, giving now is from the heart and oh how sweet that is.

Grateful for every little thing He has done for me.

[YellowStone]

Hi Beloved, well said! 

As others have mentioned, tithing to begin with had nothing to do with money. It was the fruits of whatever the harvest might be. What is more should believers not also donate their time and skills to fellow brethren or to the poor. Is this not also the Spirit of God at work and the fruits of the Spirit in action instead of simply talked about.

But and I will say "BUT" have any church member place a dozen eggs on the collection plate, or a bushell of wheat or a lamb. How far would they get? What looks of utter disdain would the be greeted with. But it doesn't stop there; what if they bought in gift cards from local stores or signed IOU's stating that someone is willing to give 8 hours of there time, worth let's say $250.00, to fix odd jobs around the house. They would I am sure be discommunicated and dis fellowshipped if this kept up.

Oh sure it is easy to laugh at the ones who don't get it, but are each one of 'us' giving unconditionally the spiritual fruits that were unconditionally given to each one of us. By doing so, one can begin to live the spirit and not simply talk about it while digging deep into pockets as so many do to day. The rewards will speak for themselves; smiles, hugs of appreciation, heart felt thanks, apple pies but even more than this; knowing that you gave of onesself to help another. It doesn't get much better than that.

Love to all in Christ the Lamb.
Darren

[Deborah-Leigh]

There is something very insidious about people who tithe.

I believe they are after the footsteps of Simon the sorcerer who imagined that money could buy God's blessing. Only the blood and sacrifice of Jesus ever paid for anything not anyones money! So like Simon, I believe that tithe payers who think they are cutting a deal with God, will one day hear the same words spoken by Peter to Simon : Acts 8:20 DESTRUCTION OVERTAKE YOUR MONEY and YOU because you imagined you could obtain the free gift of God with MONEY!

God's blessings are not for sale. They are the full possession of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Craig]

There is something very insidious about people who tithe.

I think you mean SOME who tithe.  I know of some who do it because the really believe that God requires/wants them to, and are good God fearing people.  But yes I agree, the other type is out there too.

Craig

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Craig

I used to faithfully tithe to my detrament because I too believed in the false teachers who exploit and fleece the sheep. I too was seduced to believe that God would curse me and that I should give to the charlatans what they taught was their due. I did not know the truth. It had not set me free so I gave to get as is taught by Babylon.

I was taught to prove God with my tithe : Malachi 3:10...and prove Me now by it, (the Tithe) says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you....

I was taught that God would [i]rebuke the devourer[/i] in my life if I gave my Tithe. That is fear food and deception falsity that I believed faithfully and clung to religiously.

So yes Craig...I too was deceived and only Christ can choose who is to be shown the Truth. I take your point and it is valid.

My Tithe payed double my school fees and Bible Study course from that Harlot Babylon that I was most thankfully dragged away from.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[chuckt]

Hi Rodger,

I am quite sure that Chuck is only being humorous, nothing more.

His Peace to you,

Joe

of coarse!!!  hence the use of the smiley icons. 


it was something i heard paula white say on tbn or daystar and it might not have been psalms 63 but close enough



Grace to ALL

chuckt

[Bev]

If Christ is the head of a church that He never tithed (He nor any of His holy apostles never tithed any of their disciples), then who's spirit do these pastor and bishops have that tithe? 

[Kat]

Hi Bev,

The church of Christianity is not Christ's church, He says come out of it.

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues.

His church is 'My church.'  There is a big difference between the two.

Mat 16:18  And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

In Ray's 10th article in the Lake of fire series, he shows who is head of the Christian churches.

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html -------

WHERE IS THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN?

The synagogue of Satan is located in the churches—in The Church!

"...you have tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and have found them liars" (Rev. 2:2).

Where did the Ephesians try those false, lying, apostles? In some pagan temple or church down the street, or across town, or in some foreign land? Or maybe in the pagan religion of the Roman occupation? No, in the Church. Jesus Christ says:

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write... thou have tried them which say they are apostles [in the church of Ephesus], and are not" (Rev. 2:1a & 2b).

Where did Jesus know these lying apostles? Why, in the Church, of course. Of what consequence would "lying apostles" of some pagan religion be to the churches of God in Asia?

And where did Jesus say the synagogue of Satan is located? Same place—in the Church:

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write... I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan... And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write... I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie..." (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9).

All seven of the churches were well aware of many pagan gods and pagan religions. These seven cities in Asia were filled with MANY PAGAN GODS.

The non-believing Ephesians worshipped Diana, who was associated with Artimis. Smyrna had temples to Apollo, Asclepia, Aphrodite, Cybele, Emperor Tiberius, and Zeus, and maybe most important of all, the Temple of Athena. Pergamum worshiped, Zeus, Olympus, Athena, Dionysus, Asclepius ("The Saviour"), and also the God-Serpent and the God-Bull. Thyatira worshiped the Emperor, Thyatiran, Tyrimnos, and Pallas Athena. Sardis worshiped the goddess Artemis, and both goddesses Artemis and Cybele were commemorated on their local coinage. Philadelphia worshiped the sun god and serpent gods, although Dionysis was their major god. Laodicea worshiped Zeus Azeus and Men Karou.

Were these the false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan. Was it the priests of these pagan gods and religions of the seven cities in Asia that God was warning the churches about?

Since when are the priests of paganism called APOSTLES? Since when are the followers of pagan religions and pagan gods called, LYING JEWS? Since when are the temples of Zeus and Athena and Diana called, SYNAGOGUES? No, these false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan are in the churches of God.

And isn't it ironic that in the two congregations that religious chart-makers tell us had NO spiritual flaws whatsoever, we find those residing who are specifically called, lying Jews? No, Smyrna and Philadelphia, down through the centuries, have exactly the same spiritual flaws and heresies as did all of the other five churches of Asia.
-----------------------------------------------------

You really need to read the whole article to get the full perspective of this.  But I hope it helps you see where this is coming from.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Bev]

Thanks Kat for taking the time. I will definitely read Ray's article. This is really interesting.

Again, thanks.

Bev,