the big homosexual question....this is so hard to write

[neeter]

      I am just so confused. If you all will just hear me out with an open heart, I'll try my best to tell my story and ask for advice. I really need some guidance.
As a child i always felt different. I had crushes on female teachers.( If you can't tell by my nic name, I am a woman). In high school, I had a crush on my best friend. When I got brave enough to tell her how I felt, she dumped me. I was very very hurt . I didn't know what to do, so I just covered the pain with booze and went wild with a  group of people I felt comfortable with; gays and lesbians........including the bar scene.  I was raised in a Baptist chuch in the south, so I was taught to believe it was wrong.
     I joined the service at age 21, and "got saved" in an Assembly of God missionary church while overseas. There was a genuine change in my life. I worked hard to rid myself of the feelings I had. I prayed, I was anointed with oil, I had "demons" cast out. I did everything I could think of...therapy, hypnosis , trying to date men (who only seemed to be interested in being intimate, which i could NOT handle) At age 32 i finally just tried IT just to see what it was like.........not a good idea.   So I figured I would just be celibate. I did that until about 6 years ago (15 years alone).......I was miserable, lonely, depressed.............
     I met someone. She was nice...we were together 4 years. It was nice to have a significant other, until she had an affair and left me.A few years ago, I found Ray's website and it opened my eyes to a lot of false teaching I had learned. I sit here some nights and read until 5 or 6 am (I work 2nd shift).  I just joined the forum a week or so ago, and I was looking for anything that had been written about it. All I found was a few emails.
      I am in a situation now and have been praying for guidance ,and low and behold, Ray's latest paper is on just the subject I looking for.
        I don't know how to ask about this, I have spent a total of 20 years fighting this battle. I am tired, I am alone (but not lonely) I just want to give up sometimes. This post may be deleted, but i just want you all to know this is a sincere request for advice. I have spent many hours on the floor praying for deliverance. I don't have many friends; when my girlfriend left me , so did most of "our" friends. My "Christian" friends dumped me 6 years ago. 
        I don't even know what to ask for.......prayer? advice? someone who's "been there"?  ( I have been involved in several "ex-gay" ministries.. They don't work either, they just make you hate yourself more if you don't "change")

As an added note, Ricky's post hit home too. It is so hard to feel anything anymore......especially love........

thanks
neeter

[lilitalienboi16]

      I am just so confused. If you all will just hear me out with an open heart, I'll try my best to tell my story and ask for advice. I really need some guidance.
As a child i always felt different. I had crushes on female teachers.( If you can't tell by my nic name, I am a woman). In high school, I had a crush on my best friend. When I got brave enough to tell her how I felt, she dumped me. I was very very hurt . I didn't know what to do, so I just covered the pain with booze and went wild with a  group of people I felt comfortable with; gays and lesbians........including the bar scene.  I was raised in a Baptist chuch in the south, so I was taught to believe it was wrong.
     I joined the service at age 21, and "got saved" in an Assembly of God missionary church while overseas. There was a genuine change in my life. I worked hard to rid myself of the feelings I had. I prayed, I was anointed with oil, I had "demons" cast out. I did everything I could think of...therapy, hypnosis , trying to date men (who only seemed to be interested in being intimate, which i could NOT handle) At age 32 i finally just tried IT just to see what it was like.........not a good idea.   So I figured I would just be celibate. I did that until about 6 years ago (15 years alone).......I was miserable, lonely, depressed.............
     I met someone. She was nice...we were together 4 years. It was nice to have a significant other, until she had an affair and left me.A few years ago, I found Ray's website and it opened my eyes to a lot of false teaching I had learned. I sit here some nights and read until 5 or 6 am (I work 2nd shift).  I just joined the forum a week or so ago, and I was looking for anything that had been written about it. All I found was a few emails.
      I am in a situation now and have been praying for guidance ,and low and behold, Ray's latest paper is on just the subject I looking for.
        I don't know how to ask about this, I have spent a total of 20 years fighting this battle. I am tired, I am alone (but not lonely) I just want to give up sometimes. This post may be deleted, but i just want you all to know this is a sincere request for advice. I have spent many hours on the floor praying for deliverance. I don't have many friends; when my girlfriend left me , so did most of "our" friends. My "Christian" friends dumped me 6 years ago. 
        I don't even know what to ask for.......prayer? advice? someone who's "been there"?  ( I have been involved in several "ex-gay" ministries.. They don't work either, they just make you hate yourself more if you don't "change")

As an added note, Ricky's post hit home too. It is so hard to feel anything anymore......especially love........

thanks
neeter

Hello neeter and welcome aboard, its good to have you here.

I wanted to tell you don't give up! God is with you, straight or gay, you are His child and He loves you.

I can say i've been there, not with being gay, but wanting to give up! No one said this road was easy neeter, and thats what you need to understand.

2 Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Sometimes that persecution comes right from our own carnal minds neeter.

Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

We all have our sins we have to deal with, we are all in adam, and everything that was in adam, is in the world because the world comes from adam. Adam was the most carnal person on the face of this earth. Rest assured though, with God we can do all things, even overcome that which you struggle with everyday.

Philippians 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

Trust Him neeter, He is working in you, the very fact you cry out for liberation from this bondage of sin and curroption shows us that you are not in as bad a condition you think. The very fact you want to change shows you that God is workin with you and in you! Don't give up! Hold on to Him!

Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

My prayers are with you neeter, the words escape when it comes to such a subject, my knowledge only stretches so far, but in this God has not given me wisdom enough yet. All i know is that we are ALL SINNERS and fall short of His glory.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

That all includes every single human that has ever walked the face of this earth [save Jesus offcourse.]

You are not alone, i to like you am a sinner in need of salvation and deliverance.

My prayers and love are with you.

In Christ,

Alex

[YellowStone]

Hi Neeter,

Please know that I value your openness and your honesty. I am not gay, but my life has been far from easy. God has put many things in my path that i have never been able to understand. Even today I do not understanding everything, but I know I have to trust him.

Please stay, I will never look down on you. You are no more or less than any other here, certainly no less than me.

Love to you in Christ, who knows us all.
Darren

[josh]

You are accepted. You are loved. You are not alone.

Your value in God's eyes in not determined on what you are able to accomplish in your own power. 

Your value and worth have already been solidified in Christ.

Know you have people here who are willing to walk with you and pray for and with you.

God's Peace.
Josh

[Beloved]

Hi Neeter

Every human on this planet has sinned. No sin is worse than another. WE all have to struggle with our sins.

The reason homosexuality seems to carry more burden is because sexuality is extremely personal. A prostitute is sinning but it more socially acceptable because it is an overindulgence of a natural act.

In the physical .....sex is an extremely complicated topic. There are seven layers to sexuality. The genetic determinant , the gonadal determination  the arrangement of internal organs,  the appearance of external organs, the embryoic brain mapping, the social /psychological and the spiritual.

Because of these layers there are a whole spectrum of expression in the physical world.


The world only see two sexes  and how they differ for example

Here comes an ugly bug 

Men are motor, they think in the present and are more logical in their approach to problems.     
Men take a stick and kill the bug

Females are sensual, think in the future and are more relational in problem solving   
The Female discuss the ramifications of the bug on life look for ways to keep them at bay and , then clean up the dead bug

Unfortunately the biological condition is not always that straight forward.

I recently treated an individual who was genetically a male but have blind vagina, who had testes and internal male organs and produced high levels of testosterone but whose externally appearance was a beautiful female who had with no beard or penis

Is this person sinning when they have sex with a normal male

Absolutely Not.  (By the way several famous movie stars have this condition)

There are many strange but rare conditions that occur in nature, that to the Babylonian religious types would be judged harshly.

Neeter take your eyes off the physical portion of your life and just meditate on Gods word and concentrate on Jesus, the Truth and the Way. Stop the self flagellation. We all have to look honestly at our lives. Our offense is against God not man.

I am heterosexual and even I can still appreciate the fact that I am more comfortable and feel safer around other women. You have just taken this further than I have.

I am not bragging but I can say that I have broken every physical commandment. ( I did not kill an adult but at one time I did abortions)

I also can say that I have broken them all spiritually as well. I have one nasty mind. I am glad that God prevented me from having a writing career because I could have put Stephen King and others to shame.

Right now I am dealing with anger, hate and gluttony. You are not alone in your fight. You just have a different opponent. You are exactly how God made you... and don't ask me why...I haven't a clue.

Psa 41:4  I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee

Anger and Hate are two sides of a coin and they offend God because they are my attempt to bring revenge for a wrong, they both also add fuel to my pride.

Gluttony is an my attempt to satisfy my hunger/desire for the things of the world. It leads to the physical deterioration of my clay temple.

These are only two/three  of the things that I am dealing with presently.

I do not see homosexuality as only physical act but it is also spiritual. It is attempt to have a relationship with self. Please do not think that I am  judging you in any way.  I am fascinated by gender issues in the Bible.

Why did God deliver Eve out of Adam? How come there is no male or female in the Kingdom? Why did God make two sexes?

As Ray would say everything in the bible is a parable. It is never talking about what you think it is talking about.

Right now we are all trapped in our physical lives, only now God is revealing things to those whose eyes and ears are opened. We are all learning to deal with deeper spiritual issues.

Rays paper deals both with the secular world view as well as some christian groups interpretation of Gods word. Both can only understand the carnal aspects of the Law and not the spiritual significance.

I commend you on your honesty here on the forum...unlike Babylon I hope we can do more than love the sinner and hate the sin but that we can also have compassion for each other plights and personal struggles. 

Beloved
.

[doreen]

Greetings Neeter and welcome!

First of all I just wanted to say there's nothing to be ashamed about.  You were created with the values God has given you and it doesn't matter whether you are gay or not.  The only thing that matters is that you believe in God and let His will do it's thing in your daily life.

Descrimination against homosexuality, race and other forms are just part of this difficult world.  We all need to deal with this from a time to time basis.  It saddens me that your "christian friends" turned their back on you when you actually needed their support and understanding.

You won't be albe to satisfy everybody so don't even bother.  You are special to God and quite frankly if He created you to be this way, then that's His will.  I don't believe that your sexuality should be a problem when it comes to serving God.  If that was the case, then we all would be doomed!

You're always welcome to post here and I really hope to hear from you again.

God Bless,
D

[Sue Creamer]

Hi Neeter,

Just want to send you a word of encouragement...I remember reading one of Ray's emails where he said that God is the one who must remove our sins, he creates in us the desire to stop sinning and gives us the strength.  Sounds like you are already to the point of recognizing the beast in us, but God decides the time frame for when he will remove our sins.  I too have sins that linger on and on and many times I have cried out to God to take them away, some of them he has and some he hasn't !!!  God is the potter and designer of who we are and will be, and he will make you a new creature IN HIS TIME and according to his will...!!!  It may not happen today, or tomorrow, but it will happen.   You are special to God, hang in there and take each day as it comes, be faithful, we are all with you. 
peace
Sue Ann

[Chris R]

Hello Neeter,

Because sexual sin is such a hot topic in the world in which we live, there is little anyone can say that would be politically correct.

This is one reason this forum was created, to move us out of the politics of this world and learn new truths.

Your subject is not for the general discussion area, This sin is no more or less than any sin, It is however incumbent on me to ask you to relate to the group what you have learned from reading bible-truths.com

Peace

Chris R.

[neeter]

Thank you all for your words of encouragement and support. A BIG thank you for the prayers. I can feel a new boost of comfort already...........

neeter

[rk12201960]

Hi Neeter
It really don't matter where in the mud pit we are from the thing is God will mold you into what you can't. We need God every second of our life because He is the author of all creation.

Jesus all ready won his battle and all you have to do is........
well God will let you know b/c I don't I'm still learning myself.
You are not alone we are all in the boat together.
So many wonderful post for you this should show you that Gods loves and care for you and all here for this moment in time, as it were.

God bless and I will also pray for you.

Gods speed
Randy.

[Ward]

Neeter...  Thank You... 

Please do not stop sharing.  I am sure that you have experienced much persecution on this subject.  And there have been a few times that I have seen members here start down the path to dishing out that persecution.  But I pray that you have been given the strength to overcome that persecution and help us all with your example.

We are all examples to one another.  We are not each given every weakness of the heart.  We learn from the experiences of others. 

If you search out the messages here on this forum you will notice that quite a few people recognize that the weakness that you have been given by God is not special in His eyes, only in ours.  You have (and are) experiencing exactly the life the God predestined you to have.  There is a wonderful reason for this life you are experiencing.  There will come a time when you know why.

I hope that you continue to share with us here.  This is a special subject for me. (Instead of rehashing old posts, please look them up via my Profile and the 'Show the last posts of this person' link.  I haven't made that many posts.  So you'll find them quite quickly.) 

Remember that you are anonymous here.  And there is always PM (private messages).  Please feel free to use that.

I want to help,
\/\/ard

[steve]

Hey Neeter,

So many things that you have said parallel my journey here. I was raised in the southern baptist church. I ended up in the pentecostal church where I got annointed and had demons cast out too. I tried to walk away from God because I knew that something deep in me didn't fit with God's plans. Didn't work Neeter.
When the hook is set he will let you wear yourself out, and then he will begin to draw you in.

I am 50. I realize now that if I am obedient I may never have a satisfying relationship with another that God approves of. Sometimes this hurts so bad I want to die. When I read the scriptures, I find that others have been examples  for me. Look at all that Job lost, and he remained true to God.I can only pray for grace that will be sufficient for today. Homosexuality is a big issue in the churches we left. Neeter, I think that everyone that earnestly yearns for God has some block that they just don't know how they are going to get over. Ours is just that homosexual thing. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.You hang in there and let God have his way. If you want to talk with someone, you can private message me.

God bless,
Steve

[ciy]

Not to downplay the transgression of homosexuality, remember that it is all one.  Ray does a great talk on this that all the sins are all the same.  The post by Neeter is very touching and so well said, at the same time it is not any different from the trials and struggles we all go through that have been called out by God. 

I mean for this to be encouraging because the sin of homosexuality is not special it is another of the abominations.  Search the word "abomination" in the bible and see what all is an abomination to God.  We all commit abominations before God.  My sins have me in as much bondage as your sins have you.   

Keep seeking God with all of your heart and realize that the coming age is more than we can even imagine.  God is love and is no respecter of persons.  Stay strong and courageous trusting in God.
CIY

[brandon h]

Hello Neeter,

We are here for you. AS it was posted earlier, focus more on the spiritual than the physical. AS it's said in Colossians:

"Set your mind on things above, not on earthly things, For you've died, and your life is hidden in Christ with God,"

Trust in the truths of the scriptures. It was bold of you to expose your struggles, but in the company of saints who will pray for you and help carry your burdens you can find comfort. Most important, continually abiding in the vine will set us free of our flesh, and into his pureness. I know the feelings of wrestling with struggles for long periods of time. But, when it is his time, it is right on time. Stay strong in the faith

God Bless

[DuluthGA]

Hi Neeter!   

Glad you posted this!  I have no earthly sisters, but my good friends that helped me tremendously during a severe tribulation about ten years ago were (and still are) a lesbian couple, whom I call my "pseudo sisters."  They've been together about 30 years and we're still in touch, and I still love them so but have never felt called to preach a word to them.  They are your basic "good people" and have been working hard and helping daily to raise two grandchildren from Kathy's single daughter in a very basic Christian way.  [ No cringes, no worries, all will be okay as okay can be for them in the end, as for us all.  They aren't going to change now after over thirty years of being this way.]  They live on the coast of Georgia in Brunswick.  Anyway, they helped me physically and emotionally and I'll never forget them for that.  But they could not, did not, and cannot help me spiritually with the truth as I've been growing into it here, just like you by reading Ray's wonderful stuff in the past couple of years.  So.... it's a process of a combination of leaving it all behind and going ahead and being lonely or feeling lost without love/companionship and more.  So it is for us all, from whatever background we have come from/are coming out of, so you see, you are not alone.  But be patient, you don't know what's around the NEXT corner that He's got waiting for you.  Could be something really good or maybe He will give you the honor of carrying this cross and going ahead and suffering for awhile.  Either way, YOU WILL BE GOOD. 

I've got more overall to relate with you, but will keep it short for now.

Here's a passage out of The Message that I don't think is even in context with your situation, but it struck me as being for you now:  [I'm not always logical in my approaches to communicating.   ]  John 16: 21-23

"When a woman gives birth, she has a hard time, there's no getting around it.  But when the baby is born, there is joy in the birth.  This new life in the world wipes out memory of the pain.  The sadness you have right now is similar to that pain, but the coming joy is also similar.  When I see you again, you'll be full of joy, and it will be a joy no one can rob from you.  You'll no longer be so full of questions.

With emphasis on THE COMING JOY... especially to commune with Christ and His Word... but

Keep close to us here, your new buds! 

With love and joy, 
Janice

[ez2u]

Neeter your post was so honest and open thank you.  I know it touch a lot of peoples hearts because of the way everyone is reaching out to you.  We know in this forum what it is like to struggle through hard darken places and  to have Jesus shine through those places to be  a light.  It is Jesus 's work not our own and it sounds like you are in the right place I pray you will be strenghten in  Christ Jesus.  I know from my own experience of darken places, that God is able to break those binds if it is His will.  Sexual sins are pretty common the acting on them turns up the firer and feeds the flames. my prayer are with you.  Ricky's post was haunting to me too.  we need to pray for that man please.  peggy

[neeter]

  wow...... i didn't know i would get such a warm loving response....you all have made me feel so welcome. i don't want to sound like an acceptance speech at an awards ceremony, so i will just say ((((((((((((hug)))))))))))) to everybody

i don't know where to start. i was having an "on again-off again" relationship , and the encouragement i got from here helped me to shut it off completely. i really didn't have much interest in the intimate part of the relationship   (God took "lust" away a long time ago). the companionship, or lack of, is going to be the hard part.   i guess unless God changes my heart about who i am attracted to, i'll just remain celibate (actually not to difficult to accomplish  )

when i first posted this, i put it in the wrong spot (general discussions) . thanks Chris for fixing that,and i appreciate you helping me to realize that it is just a sin like any other. i think everyone has one "certain temptation" (sin) that just won't go away. and btw, i have learned a lot on BT.
i am still struggling with the big "H" question......but my faith has been strengthened so much by realizing that God loves me, and it's HIS will that will be done in me. i may struggle with this the rest of my time on earth. i'm 47, so i'm PROBABLY past the halfway point . Paul had a thorn in his side, so maybe this is mine.......i wonder if that was his thorn?? maybe......(just kidding )

thanks
neeter

[Robin]

It's never too late for God to set us free. I struggled with sin most of my life and then one day God just started working when I least expected it. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. I've been alone and celibate for many, many years. That is really a miracle because I couldn't live without a relationship from the time I was in kindergarten until I was almost 40. I am even content being alone now. We can't define God by our present condition. He is bigger than we are.

I've learned to recognize sin for what it is and not justify it in any way because I'm too weak to free myself. That usually puts me right in the middle of Romans 7. The biggest struggle I had was to rest in God and not try to save myself. That can be really hard when you want to be free to be pleasing to God. He dug so deep and showed me things about myself that I didn't know existed. It's all in his time.

[Craig]

when i first posted this, i put it in the wrong spot (general discussions) . thanks Chris for fixing that,and i appreciate you helping me to realize that it is just a sin like any other.

Neeter, bless you.  I'm glad you took what Chris said in the spirit that it was said.  It's been brought to my attention that some folks in another forum used Chris's reply to you, to bash Bible-truths and accuse Chris of being unloving.  It is the M.O. of those who have nothing better to do than try and spot the splinters in others eyes and making mountains out of mole-hills, while at the same time trying to feel good and justify their behavior.  Chris is as fair minded, loving and just as anyone I've met, and I'm sure he would be hurt by unfounded rumor of those who only want to tear down. 

I've said many times before, sin is sin, is sin.  None are any different than another and all will keep us from God's full blessings.  Recognizing our sins and turning them over to God, instead of justifying our sins is an important first step on the path to reconciliation with our Father.

You are in my prayers, as are those who seek to tear down.

Blessings
Craig

[Deborah-Leigh]

I came out of the Catholic Church that teaches that there are different gradients of sin namely venial and mortal sins or cardinal sins. Like if you take a cookie out the jar then you are not as guilty as the person who takes the whole jar! or the mortal sin of the one who takes the whole jar and shoots the cook on the way out

This deceptive teaching of human reasoning is not scriptural or true but I did not know that then.

If we sin then we are guilty of all sins. We all sin. If we compare the largeness or smallness of the perceived sin then this creates ample opportunity to cultivate pride and self deception.

I believe that obedience or disobedience, carrying the cross or rejecting it, results in how many stripes we get in the end to correct us!

This thread has been a blessing.

Peace to you

Arcturus