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[javajoe]

There is something I need to resolve, and I am hoping to get some answers.

I came to Christ in 1984, not through a "sinner's prayer" (although I tried that approach several times), but just by a "quickening" of faith while in prayer and praise with my brother.

Although I am definately a believer and feel God working in my life, I have always had a problem with "assurance" of salvation., that others claim they have.  I couldn't absolutely tell someone in all honesty that I would go to heaven if a died right now.

My question is, can we, as believers, have the absolute assurance that we are one of the chosen, or do we just wait and hope for this,knowing that God will eventaully "reconcile Himself" to us?  It does say in scripture that, "he who endures to the end, the same shall be saved".  Am I off the mark here?  The bottom line is that I need to come to terms with the faith and understanding of Scripture that I do have, and live it honestly. 

Ciao

[chuckt]

chosen=elect  same exact word in greek.

so:

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

2Pe 1:5 ¶ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


 2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


 2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness LOVE.


 2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 2Pe 1:9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


 2Pe 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


 2Pe 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.





the fact you are asking the question proves you are chosen. so now walk in it!!!


inlove
chuckt

[jacieleigh]

God is so much bigger than we can even imagine. You desired God and He desires you.Rest in the knowledge that God has it all!

[dawnnnny]

Hi Joe,

I struggle with this question too.  I'm still not sure if we can ever be 100% assured.  I read those verses (thanks Chuck) and then ask myself, well yes...I see a lot of that in me but I fall short in so many ways (as we all do) - so it begs the question (which I hate) - Am I good enough yet?  And if I am, will I stay that way?    But of course, its not about being good enough - but that's what my carnal mind still wants to think, when my spirit knows better!

It all leads back to that feeling of having to do the work ourselves (again, a part of that free will thing).  Since reading though, on the BT site, I'm starting to see that God is faithful and when my carnal mind still fights with doing the work myself (its not an overnight change), I'm remaining hopeful that God will purge out everything that still remains.  I thank Him for that because I know He is MY ONLY HOPE.

How many Christians walk their walk and can really answer that question "If you died today, would you go to heaven?" (ohhhh the bondage of that famous question!)   Well we now know when we die, we sleep.  So I guess the new question is "what will we be resurrected to?"  Are we one of the chosen, or just one of the called?   I've been the prodigal daughter several times in the last 20 years but I see that HE keeps DRAGGING me back to His Word.  Can you be called (BACK) 50+ times in 20 years?   

So I don't have an answer for you.  This is my experience.  For me, I'm not going to worry about being chosen.  I'm in awe at this time in my life that's He's brought me to today.  I'm hopeful.  And I leave the rest in His hands.

Much Love,
Dawn

[skydreamers]

Hi Javajoe,

The way I see it is:

there's a big difference in having confidence while running the race and aspiring to win

and

running the race with confidence that you've already won it....

The first confidence still keeps you on your toes and ever reaching for the goal.

The second confidence is dangerous because it has the potential for arrogance and complacency.


I think this is why we read:

You've all been to the stadium and seen the athletes race. Everyone runs; one wins. Run to win. All good athletes train hard. They do it for a gold medal that tarnishes and fades. You're after one that's gold eternally. I don't know about you, but I'm running hard for the finish line. I'm giving it everything I've got. No sloppy living for me! I'm staying alert and in top condition. I'm not going to get caught napping, telling everyone else all about it and then missing out myself.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (Message)

and

Do you see what this means--all these pioneers who blazed the way, all these veterans cheering us on? It means we'd better get on with it. Strip down, start running--and never quit! No extra spiritual fat, no parasitic sins.
Hebrews 12:1 (Message)

Only God knows who His chosen are, but let's run the race like we want to be part of that group.

Peace,
Diana

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ciao javajoe


This I believe this excerpt can help. From Ray Praying by Gods Rules

This Scripture will blow you away if you have never before seen it properly translated. Here it is first in the King James Version:

"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:24-26).

Paul makes a connection between "hope and prayer." Hope is something we expect, but do not as yet experience. All of Christendom has this subject wrong when they claim that they are already in this life "saved" in the past tense. Paul tells us that we are "saved by hope," but if it is already a reality, then there is no need to still be hoping for it.
 http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

Peace to you

Arcturus

[javajoe]

Thanks for all those responses, it has truly helped me and I know that I have found true fellowship with you all.  It is especially encouraging that others have the same struggles and questions.

Ciao

[dawnnnny]

Arcturus, thank you for your posting.  I just listened to Ray's audio on being saved by grace, but he didn't say anything about this other verse using the word "hope" (or if he did, I missed it) -- He was using the Ephesians verses.  This is wonderful and lifted me up this day!

Diana, loved The Message verses too, I need to pick up one of those!  Thank you too m'am 

Much love,
Dawn

[musicman]

I will now answer your question.


Yes!!!!

[gmik]

To quote Ray in LOF pt 12 that Diana used on her beautiful Sea of Gallilee thread:

...there is also "safety, shelter, and covering" in Gods' Divine Pond of Spiritual purifying fire..........

Yes, I want to run the race to win it..I love this life that God has for us and His plan ....I love reading scripture and wanting to do my best as God wills ...BUT.....IF I am in or not  doesn't occupy a lot of my time or thoughts.Either  I will be w/ Him helping others or the elect will be helping me  and...I just zero in on the  shelter of purifying Love and then in the 'ALL IN ALL' and its all good!!!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Dawn

You comment : Arcturus...I just listened to Ray's audio on being saved by grace, but he didn't say anything about this other verse using the word "hope" (or if he did, I missed it) -- He was using the Ephesians verses.  This is wonderful and lifted me up this day!

This is just another example made visible of how our Lord directs us to exactly what we need to learn to lift us up in hope and blessed assurance of His Faithfulness! You listened to exactly what you needed to hear! and HE not I, caused and directed your path and steps!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[DuluthGA]

Hi JavaJoe!

Thought this tidbit might get you started on reading more from Ray's LOF Part 8, What Happened to the Church that Jesus built?

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

ARE YOU "CALLED AND CHOSEN" OR JUST "CALLED?"

Let me first state that there is an order in the process of being called to Sonship. First you are called, and then you are chosen from among the called. And we have already learned that the "chosen" are also the "few." Quite frankly, not unlike a casting call. Many are called to come to the casting rehearsal, but only a relative few will be chosen for the actual performance. Which are you? I will not be your personal judge, however, as we progress in this series, you will be confronted with dozens of Scriptures by which you can JUDGE YOURSELF by the aid of God’s Spirit.

Enjoy! 
Janice