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[eggi]

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; (Rom 1:20 KJV)

Paul said that the invisible things are clearly seen. True, but sometimes we have problems with seeing the visible things too! (Explanation follows)...

The other day I was watching some optical illusions on a webpage, and it struck me that even when I knew that they were just that, illusions, they still appeared real to me. And worst of all, I KNEW that I did could not see them how they actually appear in reality! I tried hard to focus on other parts of the images, wanting to have a glimpse of how they really look. I was successful with some of them, but some of the images appeared the same way (as an illusion) no matter how I looked at them.

Then I thought: "Well, that's just how my eyes work, nothing to do about that..."

I took this thought a bit further, and I began to think about how our brains are wired. This scripture came to mind:

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom 8:20-21 KJV)

In the same way we were made subject to vanity, we were also made subject to optical illusions, an aspect of our brains which limits our senses and our understanding of reality. There are many other ways in which this is manifested too. With this in mind, it is a mystery how people claim that we have free will, when we clearly have so many limitations!! Sure, we can choose to compensate for optical illusions with glasses, by looking at them with one eye, but we can't escape from how our brain is set-up to interpret what we see.

Amazing stuff... 

God bless you,
Eirik


A Hermann grid illusion. Shape position and color contrast converge to produce the illusion of grey blobs at the intersections.

[Rene]

Hi Eirik,

This thought occurred to me on the topic of illusion:

Those who are "spiritually blind" are under an illusion when they study and read God's word.  They perceive God's word differently from what it is in reality, hence, all the false doctrines and beliefs.  Only God's Spirit can give us the "corrected vision" to see the truth of His word.

Rene'

[Deborah-Leigh]

Yes, and an illusion is as real to the one "seeing" it as to the one who is seeing an hallucination or a mirage in a desert! Perhaps that is where the saying, I could swear blind that .....

It also makes me think about the claim that we only use aprox 10 % of our brains capacity! We surely do see in a glass dimly until we see Him as He really is!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[eggi]

Hi Rene and Arcturus,

Thanks for the input!
It's an illusion all right! We have to be given the understanding from above.

And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. (Isa 40:5 KJV)

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Mat 16:17 KJV)


It's said so clearly, but when you are not aware of the fact that God is using strong delusion, then you won't even think about the possibility that you are deceived (looking at an illusion).

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2Th 2:3-4 KJV)

[Robin]

This is a good one.

Stare at the dots in the center of the image for 30 seconds
Close your eyes
In a few seconds you’ll see a vision, what is it?

[iris]

Hi MG,

That was cool!!! 
Thanks for sharing.


Peace and Love
Iris

[Deborah-Leigh]

It occurred to me that the ability to see correctly is a skill that requires great and astute aptitude. Sight does not occur the moment after a baby is born and neither does it occur without skill training and exercise!

This is why BT is so wonderful because the teachings are also training in correct knowledge and perception.

Here for example is what is required as basics to understanding from http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

similes (when something is like, or as something else, it is a simile rather than a metaphor)
metaphors (where one thing is said to actually be something else) as in, "all life is grass" I Pet. 1:24. Therefore, the subject of this paper IS a metaphor and CANNOT be literal: John says, "...the lake of fire, This IS the second death" (Rev. 20:14), and "...the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which IS the second death" (Rev. 21:
implications
parables (there are many, the shortest one being, "Physician, heal Thyself" Luke 4:23)
allegories (as in the two women standing for two covenants, Gal. 4:22-28)
visions (as in a sheet let down from heaven, Acts 10:11-16)
signs (as in the sign of Jonah the prophet, Matt. 12:39)
types (as in Adam corresponding with Christ, Rom. 5:12-21)
shadows (as in the law being a shadow of good things to come, Heb. 10:1)
examples (as in the tabernacle vessels being examples of what is in heaven , Heb. 9:23)
images (as Christ is the image of God, Col. 1:15)
impersonations or personifications (where things are spoken of as persons)
condescension's (as where God takes on human attributes)
diminutives (as in "little women, heaped with sins" II Tim. 3:6)
There are FIGURES OF ASSOCIATION which include:

association or metonymy's
appellations (as when a quality or office is used instead of a proper name, as in "Son of Mankind" instead of saying Jesus Christ)
compound associations (as "the word of the cross" I Cor. 1:18, which has to do with Christ’s shameful and agonizing death)
near associations (as in a phrase that is partly literal, "Then went out to Him Jerusalem [that is the people of Jerusalem]", Matt. 3:5)
retention's (this one is too complicated to explain, but I’ll give you an example, "the tablets of the heart" II Cor. 3:3)
circumlocutions or periphrasis (what is "circumlocution"? Well, it’s a descriptive phrase in place of a name in order to emphasize the association. Examples, "the product of the grapevine [though not named is, wine]" Matt. 26:29, "the city of David [though not named is, Bethlehem]" Luke 2:11,
enigmas, and symbols (where a known object or something else is used to typify something else, or even an intangible quality such as love, power, beauty, etc.)
Here are many of the words from the book of Revelation used as SYMBOLS:

candlesticks
horses
locusts
beasts
birds
animals
dragons
heads
horns
teeth
tails
eyes
mouths
wings
hair
feet
hands
foreheads
odours
books
gold
seals
crowns
names
cities
nations
kings
tongues
Nicolaitans
Antipas
Armageddon
Balaam
Balak
Abaddon
Apollyon
Babylon
Sodom
Egypt
Jezebel
 book of life
tree of live
water of life
hours
days
months
seasons
rod of iron
sickle
bow
blades
swords
reap
harvest
grass
trees
thrones
garments
robes
signs
images
wonders
marks
numbers
vials
trumpets
winds
rivers
lakes
seas
waters
clouds
floods
mountains
islands
lightnings
voices
thunders
earthquakes
 hails
songs
winepresses
grapes
wine
balances
wheat
barley
oil
eyesalve
pebbles
manna
wreaths
palm fronds
whores
harlots
fornications
keys
doors
temples
synagogues
pillars
rich
poor
blind
naked
hot
cold
lukewarm
blood
deaths
fire
sulfur
brimstone
smoke
sun
moon
stars
 
 

And even heaven and earth are used as symbols in this great book of symbols.

There are also FIGURES OF OMISSION which include:

omitted nouns (as in "the wicked [people is understood]," "the blind [people]," "the rich [people]," "the poor [people]," "the twelve [apostles is omitted but understood])
omitted verbs (as in incongruous omissions like, "Milk I give you to drink not solid food" The omission of "to eat" is understood, as one does not "drink solid food" I Cor. 3:2)
unfinished sentences (the King James usually finishes sentences that are unfinished in the Greek, such as, "As I swear in My indignation, If they shall be entering into My rest___!" Heb. 3:11)
omission or non-sequence (as in "These which you are beholding___there will be coming days..." Luke 21:6)
I did not include this basic listing of "figures of speech" in the Scriptures, just to fill another page. It is most important to understand..........

Peace to you

Arcturus

[gmik]

Thats very interesting Eirik.  Arc thanks for the info-I copied it to study.

I have heard that when, lets say, you open a drawer and someone has put in a play snake, your body totally, down to the cells, actually react and responds and thinks it is a real snake.

[Deborah-Leigh]

G

I have heard that under hypnosis, if a person is told they are being touched with a red hot poker, the skin actually blisters at the point of contact. I do not know how true that is but if so, it would be like a person who believes in Hell. They too believe a lie.

Deception too would come under this topic I believe. Lies appear real to the unsighted!

Peace to you

Arc.

[skydreamers]

Hi guys,

Erik, this is an interesting topic.  There are so many things we don't really see clearly yet.  But I also think that part of the "tormenting" that happens spiritually in the lake of fire comes through our own twisted views of reality, illusions we have clung to...

Revelation 14:10
he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Interesting this torment happens in the PRESENCE of the holy angels and the Lamb (which by the way flies in the face of the traditional hell view of being tormented by demons far away from the presence of God)....

There are so many lies that need to be purged out of us.  The tearing down of illusions can be painful even if they ultimately lead to rejoicing.

I think the story of Joseph and his brothers tells us a lot of what the experience will be in the Lake of Fire.  The brothers were "tormented" in the presence of Joseph and even when he was providing for them they still believed that Joseph might kill him in revenge of what they had done to him.  Could this be an indication that those Christians who have believed the lie of eternal torment, will find themselves in the lake of fire and still be under the "illusion" that they have ended up in the "hell" they believed in their whole lives.  Even when Jesus reveals himself, will they still believe for a time that He will yet kill them?  This would definitely be tormenting I would think.  The lie could be so strong, that even when Jesus tells them he will care for them, they yet will still not believe!

And then there is this scripture:

2 Samuel 22:26-27
With the merciful you show yourself merciful; with the blameless man you show yourself blameless; with the purified you deal purely, and with the crooked you make yourself seem tortuous.

Matthew 25:24
He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man.....

Through man's own "crooked" viewpoint he sees God as a "hard man" who will torture most of mankind for eternity.  Those who actually embrace this illusion whole heartedly and "revel" in it will be in for the biggest shock initially, because it could be that God allows them for a time to "perceive" that they have been sent to the very hell they preached about....!!  How scary would that be!!!  If that doesn't humble a person, I don't know what will!!

Peace,
Diana

[LittleBear]

That's a new way to look at it Diana,

If a person sets himself up above the rest of humanity by saying a 10 second sinner's prayer, and thereby believes himself on the road to heaven, and when he wakes up in the very "hell" he was avoiding, he would certainly be desperately seeking God, examining himself, and repenting.

The thing that is so sad about believing in hell is that a person will align himself to Jesus just to avoid going to eternal torture. That is not what God desires; our God wants us to love Him with all our heart and to earnestly seek after HIM, not what He can give, and certainly not to avoid punishment. What father would want that?!

Ursula

[skydreamers]

That's a new way to look at it Diana,

If a person sets himself up above the rest of humanity by saying a 10 second sinner's prayer, and thereby believes himself on the road to heaven, and when he wakes up in the very "hell" he was avoiding, he would certainly be desperately seeking God, examining himself, and repenting.

The thing that is so sad about believing in hell is that a person will align himself to Jesus just to avoid going to eternal torture. That is not what God desires; our God wants us to love Him with all our heart and to earnestly seek after HIM, not what He can give, and certainly not to avoid punishment. What father would want that?!

Ursula

Ya, exactly Ursula.  That's why it makes sense to me that we are tormented by our own guilty consciences that leads us to be ashamed in the presence of goodness.  When we realize how much we have misrepresented the loving character of God, we will be ashamed.  He is not some tyrant who tortures, but a loving Father who is disciplining for our own good. 

It also reminds me of the examples of murderers in jail who meet with their victims families, and the families extend forgiveness and mercy to the murderer, who is awed by the kindness and becomes ashamed of his own actions.  Love eventually will melt every heart.  It's irresistible.  When we see the true depths of God's mercy, we will be humbled I'm sure.  It's overcoming evil with good. 

Even now, in this life, when you try to share the truth that Eternal Hell is a lie and God will save everyone eventually, people find it so hard to accept...they think it is too good to be true....they just can't believe that God is GOOD.  Some actually will call Universalism "a doctrine of the devil"  (someone told me this once and I was shocked!).  They've got it so backwards, and there is so much in them that is resisting LOVE and embracing HATE.  How tormenting must that be!

Just embrace Love and be at peace.  That's what I say.

Peace,
Diana

[eggi]

Just a follow up, this time an aural illusion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

God bless you,
Eirik