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[brandon h]

This is a topic not meant for debate, just insight. Here it goes:

My wife and I got married without much if a plan (two years ago). She was staying with some drug addicts who were constatnly taking her money, so when we started dating, she moved in with me and my parents. Well, we have been married for two years now, and we are still here. Due to some very bad business advice, our bills have piled up, while our credit has sunk. A couple of days ago we decided to consider filing for bankruptcy. It would give us a chance to get on our feet and move. This morning as soon as I turned on the tv I heard Creflo Dollar preaching on how the word is greater than your bills, health issues, etc. And of course you always hear of how christians should never be broke, etc.(of course as long as you tithe). I agree, that the word is more powerful than anything physical. But what of his will? The bible also says, "Do not owe anybody anything". Well, I owe everybody! And I'm not counting out miracales, nor do I feel like I lack faith. It's just that I have no shame doing this if that's what it takes for us to get a clean start. My wife (24) and I (26) are still young and have definetly learned some hard lessons, but I wouldn't take them back because we are wiser. So, has any body else felt this struggle a little? Are you lacking faith? Or are you just prepared for whatever his will is? Insight would be well appreciated.

God Bless

[javajoe]

This is a topic not meant for debate, just insight. Here it goes:

My wife and I got married without much if a plan (two years ago). She was staying with some drug addicts who were constatnly taking her money, so when we started dating, she moved in with me and my parents. Well, we have been married for two years now, and we are still here. Due to some very bad business advice, our bills have piled up, while our credit has sunk. A couple of days ago we decided to consider filing for bankruptcy. It would give us a chance to get on our feet and move. This morning as soon as I turned on the tv I heard Creflo Dollar preaching on how the word is greater than your bills, health issues, etc. And of course you always hear of how christians should never be broke, etc.(of course as long as you tithe). I agree, that the word is more powerful than anything physical. But what of his will? The bible also says, "Do not owe anybody anything". Well, I owe everybody! And I'm not counting out miracales, nor do I feel like I lack faith. It's just that I have no shame doing this if that's what it takes for us to get a clean start. My wife (24) and I (26) are still young and have definetly learned some hard lessons, but I wouldn't take them back because we are wiser. So, has any body else felt this struggle a little? Are you lacking faith? Or are you just prepared for whatever his will is? Insight would be well appreciated.

God Bless

Hi Brandon,

Welcome to the forum!

My advice to you is - have a plan!  Proverbs 30: 25 talks about the ant: Ants are creatures of little strength,
       yet they store up their food in the summer", in other words, they are but tiny little creature with p brains, yet they have sense to plan for the future.  This sounds a little direct, but your situation reminds me of my sister and brother inlaw who got themselves in debt when they were young, and had the attitude "God will take care of us", but never did learn how to manage money and continually got themselves into trouble.  So, you have obviously learned a little wisdom from your situation, so use it and don't get yourself into trouble again!  I think it takes more faith to apply a scripture like that (inspired by the Holy Spirit), than to be presumptuous like my sister amd b-in-law were!

Sorry to be so direct,

In Christ,

Joe

[brandon h]

It's okay you were direct. It's needed now. And you are right!

God Bless

[dawnnnny]

Hi Brandon,

I'm not sure if this will help, but when I was in my late 20's/early 30's, my ex and I had to file bankruptcy.  I say "had" to because he just wouldn't work (I had worked since my first born was 4 months old).  We (I) tried for years to get on top of things but being young, so many things would happen to set us back again (car breaks down, kids get sick, etc.).

I didn't want to file bankruptcy.  With me it was a combination of pride (I can fix this!!!) and also I felt it would be wrong in God's eyes.  But the day they called and threatened to garnish my wages (not my husband who didn't work), that was it.  I felt that I had done everything I could to get out and it was affecting me physically, mentally and emotionally.

I was young and young people are so often "targets" of creditors who dangle credit cards in front of their noses knowing that they'll bite.  Well, after I filed, I breathed a sigh of relief.  It was a hard lesson though.  The one thing that made me feel a bit better is that those retailers got so much money from me for years in interest, that they more than got their money back (probably a few times).   

All any of us can do is learn from past mistakes and try to not repeat it.  I know HE understands our shortcomings, regardless of what area they fall in. 

Blessings to both you and your wife!
Dawn

[DuluthGA]

Hi Brandon! 

Any money you save now will go towards your retirement [have long-range vision] or days of emergencies [shorter-ranged vision], so save save save and tuck as much of it away for the rest of your God-given life and don’t give it to the world.

What to throw out first?  Temporal trappings, anything that is NOT NECESSARY OR NON-NUTRITIOUS.

 
Janice

[brandon h]

thanx for your advice, its well appreciated

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Brandon,

Struggling economically is not unusual while you are in your 20's, as work experience increases and your track record shows your consistancy and dedication you become more and more valuable to employers as you reach your 30's and beyond.

As far as bankruptcy goes you would be well advised to seek council from a CPA or financial advisor who has no stake in whatever decision you ultimately make (versus a bankruptcy lawyer).

Thomas Sowell a noted economist and author (the only person I know who makes this topic fascinating) has many articles and books that explain the dynamics of economics in an easy to read yet thoroughly researched manner.

Here is a portion of one of his articles on this very subject;

Much of the political sanctimoniousness of this era revolves around statistical data on income distribution.  The problem is not with the statistics, but with what our imagination reads into the statistics.  When we look at data on the incomes of the top twenty percent and the bottom twenty percent, we are likely to imagine that we are looking at "the rich" and "the poor." But, most of those in the top twenty percent of the income distribution are far from rich and many of those in the bottom twenty percent are not poor.
    Most income distribution statistics are like a high speed photograph that freezes everything the way it was at a given split-second, which may or may not be the way it was a moment later and is unlikely to be the way it was an hour later.  For example, I imagine that many of the students here today will earn twice as high an annual income next year as they earn this year-- simply because they will work full-time only six months this year and twelve months next year.
    Even when a young man in his twenties works full time, he is unlikely to earn as high an income as his father earns in his forties, after long years of experience and seniority.  Is this an injustice that requires a government program to correct it-- especially since most people in their twenties will eventually be in their forties, with or without govemment programs?  Are we to call an intern poor and a doctor rich, when being an intern is just a stage on the way to becoming a doctor?
    When we look at income statistics, we do not know whether the actual people in those brackets are stuck there permanently or are just passing through.  A study at the University of Michigan followed the same individuals over a period of years to see where their income went.  Most of those people did not remain in the same bracket for as long as eight years.  Half the people in the bottom twenty percent-- those we think of as "the poor"-- were not in that bracket the following year.  Three percent of those in the bottom bracket one year were actually in the top bracket the following year. (I wish I knew how they did that.)
    How many of those in the bottom twenty percent remained in the bottom twenty percent for a decade?  Only three percent.  No doubt there are many genuinely unfortunate people in that group.  But they are nothing like the massive numbers of "the poor" that we hear about in the media or in what are called "the social sciences."  Much of what is called "social science" could more accurately be called perjury.

Read the whole article here;

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MKN5vL50geUJ:www.tsowell.com/spmorali.html+lowest+twenty+percent+highest+twenty+thomas+sowell&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

Also, here is Thomas Sowell's website where you (or anyone interested) can access his articles and books.

http://www.tsowell.com/

Peace to you,

Joe

P.S. Sorry, I forgot to address one major point, here is His will in regard to doing what is best for your family.

1Ti 5:8  But if any provide not for his own and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.


 

[dawnnnny]

Interesting article Joe.  It reminded me of something I just saw on TV about the "poor" in America.  It really gave a good perspective on what this country considers "poor".  The whole article is here:  http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg2064.cfm

Here's just a part....

Poverty is an important and emotional issue. Last year, the Census Bureau released its annual report on poverty in the United States declaring that there were 37 million poor persons living in this country in 2005, roughly the same number as in the preceding years.[4] According to the Census report, 12.6 percent of Amer­icans were poor in 2005; this number has varied from 11.3 percent to 15.1 percent of the population over the past 20 years.[5]

To understand poverty in America, it is important to look behind these numbers—to look at the actual living conditions of the individuals the government deems to be poor. For most Americans, the word "poverty" suggests destitution: an inability to provide a family with nutritious food, clothing, and reasonable shelter. But only a small number of the 37 million per­sons classified as "poor" by the Census Bureau fit that description. While real material hardship certainly does occur, it is limited in scope and severity. Most of America's "poor" live in material conditions that would be judged as comfortable or well-off just a few generations ago. Today, the expenditures per person of the lowest-income one-fifth (or quintile) of house­holds equal those of the median American household in the early 1970s, after adjusting for inflation.[6]

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various gov­ernment reports:
    * Forty-three percent of all poor households actu­ally own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
    * Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
    * Only 6 percent of poor households are over­crowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
    * The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
    * Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.
    * Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
    * Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
    * Eighty-nine percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.

I know my kids complain about their present situation, but they are in so much better shape than I ever was at their age!  LOL   And yet, at their age, I was still very blessed, as we all are in this country.

Anyway, not exactly on topic, but thought it might be interesting to the readers.  Have a great day!

[DuluthGA]

Hi again Brandon,

Sorry I missed the impetus of your first post... has any body else felt this struggle a little? Are you lacking faith? Or are you just prepared for whatever his will is?

Just a quick response to that:  When it comes to faith and finances for me, it is always a struggle because I too am one of the little guys, have always been.  And why He let me wreck my transmission twice on that rough railroad crossing around the corner, I will never know (bucks.  )  I can honestly say I am never quite prepared for His will, but I am able now to contritely accept it and give it my best effort to adjust.  I have been through too much now at this station in my life to steadfastly resist it.  Attitude is the main component of just about everything we need to handle.   

Plus the good news is that God mostly chooses and uses the little guys, the nothings of this world.  So that's some consolation.    Here's how Ray puts it in:  http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

THE "CALLED" AND THE "NOT CALLED"

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many [some, but not many] wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. [/b]

But God has chosen the foolish things [many translations do not insert the word "things" in these verses] of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And the base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Cor. 1:26-29).

So we see that God calls MOSTLY those who are: weak, base, despised, nothings! Are we to believe that God is going to build a SPIRITUAL ARMY of Sons and Daughters by which He will conquer and SAVE THE WORLD?

Hard to believe, isn’t it? I think we can all agree that there is a great deal of work to be done with and to these "nothings of the world" whom God is calling to such a formidable, once-in-an-eternity task!

Brandon, I also had another couple of money-saving ideas for you as reducing expenses is essentially the same as generating income.  First is the idea to learn how to live very very cheaply and it actually can be fun.  Search the words:  'frugal life/living', 'living on a dime', 'dollar stretcher' and you will find cool sites where people share their ideas on how to pinch a penny.  Amazing ideas!  Here's a great one:  Use shop towels that come on a roll in the paint department of Walmart for kitchen spills instead of paper towels, and don't throw them away; just pop them in the washer with your colored clothes; they can be laundered hundreds of times.

The other idea is to become familiar with the Clark Howard site.  He is a nationally known consumer guru... is an ultra cheapie even though he is a multi-millionaire.  He has a wealth of general info that is always pointed toward what is cheapest and best. 

God's best to ya! 
Janice

[gmik]

Brandon, I would trust the advice on this thread over anything Creflo Dollar says!!!

Just to add my 2 cents....we were always broke and living paycheck to paycheck in our 20's and 30's.  I wasn't working, 3 kids, hubby was a teacher.  Once I went back to work when all kids in school, eventually we got caught up.  I couldn't retire this year cuz of those years in our early marriage.  We never saved!!!!  Even if you live by each paycheck, STILL SAVE!!!!!! Janice is right on w/ living w/in your means and cutting back.  Hard to do in our society, but absolutely essential.  I agree w/ Joe, before you go thru bankruptcy, check out those free services that counsel you.  I think they make arrangements w/ your creditors so you can pay back w/ what you have.

PS  I will NEVER forget the day a creditor came to my DOOR, (I wasn't answering him on the phone ), I hid and didn't answer. Oh we COULD have paid him but.... all the time we were TITHING!!!!!!!aaarrrrggggghhhhh (instead of doing the right thing in honoring a contract!)

 I could barely forgive myself for that episode until I came to BT....OH!!!!  It was God's will for us to do that? -to show us the idols of our hearts, or something needed in our journey.  Don't know what God's plan was for the poor sap who we owed