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sonofone:
I recently bought a book about why we should tithe,because I wanted to hear a detailed explanation of it and challenge what I personally believe. After reading the book I became very sad,because it dawned on me that people who see things differently from you really do in fact SEE THINGS differently than you. In the book the writer pointed to Abraham as having paid tithes as well as Jacob which he says clearly showed that tithing came before the law so the excuse that we are no longer under the law does not apply. He also mentioned in the new testament Jesus told the pharisees that while they paid the tithes of mint they left of the weightier matters,which Jesus than stated this you should have done and NOT left off the other. This he states is Jesus saying that Tithes should not be left off. Lastly he stated that the absence of any doctrinal teaching on tithes in the new testament was no indicator that tithes were not to be practiced;but rather that it was such a given that no further mention of it was necessary.He even went as far as to use the scripture lay every one of IN STORE as the lord has prospered you; as implied the Tithe. As I said when I read this it saddened me because for the first time I realized there was no hope in convincing a person who believes this of thinking any other way.I was also sad because it seems that with every truth you look at there seems to be at least one counter scripture that could be interpreted differently. For instance the doctrine of grace and not being under the law.Then you will read in the book of Acts where husband and wife were killed dead for lying to the holyghost.Doesent seem to be much grace and mercy there.

DuluthGA:
Hi Sonofone,

Maybe you need to re-read Ray's tithing paper at the top of his home page.  Any seeming tithing confusions are cleared up neatly there.  :)  Because after all, there is only one truth and God's Word never contradicts itself, right?

It's a matter both of discernment and revelation and if you have neither, perhaps God will give you discerning eyes and ears through someone he has inspired to be a teacher of His truths.

And I agree with you fully:  "As I said when I read this it saddened me because for the first time I realized there was no hope in convincing a person who believes this of thinking any other way." This is true only because it is not their time to be given to know yet, not because there are any problems with the Scriptures themselves.  There are not.

But I know what you mean.  For example, I compiled a bunch of verses on the theme of "we should be coming out of the world"..... there are 45-50 related verses on this.... but then I came upon a verse that Jesus speaks that seems to say the exact opposite of the theme:

Jhn 17: 15   I am not asking that Thou shouldst be taking them away out of the world, but that Thou shouldst be keeping them from the wicked one.

So.... it takes discernment, does it not, to put it all together?  That we are to of course be amid and among the world while we should be separating ourselves spiritually and on most worldly fronts.  We have to go through the process!  Voila, no scripture contradiction involved!

This matter of God-given spiritual discernment grows more with time in Him.  You will come to have even more understandings open up within...I think, if you earnestly seek.  We all experience growth in these areas over time and will continue to do so.  Every single one of us on this earth will one fine day learn all of His righteousness.  It is very much a process and it definitely does not occur overnight.

So hang on to hope!  ;):)
Janice

DuluthGA:
Hi again Sonofone,

I didn't have time to finish my first post to you.  To address your wondering about God immediately causing Ananias and Sapphira's death, first of all I would offer that we don't always know why God does things... just because of the nature of God being God.  "My ways are not your ways" etc.  Plus:

John 9: 2-3   And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So to me, God not only is God, but God has His works and His methods which are beyond our knowledge of finding out but are presented to us nevertheless in His Word.  My insight into God's loving divine plan is that He IS LOVE and he loves us all, and that although I may wonder or question some scriptures/concepts/insights, I still give Him the honor and the glory and trust Him ultimately for everything, good and bad, that He is operating it all perfectly with loving intentions.... for us all! 

Further don't forget that scenarios in scriptures are to be used for our example and admonishment.

And finally, in this email to Ray:  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4866.0.html, Ray uses this particular incident as an example:

"Ananias and Sapphira were decidedly NOT two of God's Chosen Elect. They were CALLED, but not chosen, and like all "called" but NOT chosen, they could NOT obey from the heart and be among those in the first resurrection to reign with Jesus."

Keep seeking and questioning!  :)
Janice

insanezenmistress:
  :(  i absolutly know this frustration.

When one goes off to seek truth and then finds many many interpretations of the same truth. It can drive a person nuts. literally. i have been almost to suicide over "Lord which truth is yours"

He hasnt told me everything YET, but happilly he preserved my life while i wait on him.  Along the way learned that for every knowledge and truth you discover you will also find rebuttal. Each person pursuedes himself according to his knowledge.

We know the source of true truth is God, so we keep trusting him. We also know that no man has "got it" so we take Pauls words that each person must be fully pursueded in their hearts. We know that the Holy SPirit also teaches us inso far as we are able to recieve, so we MUST remain flexable to concider his revelations in light of truth already learned.  The GOD that is all TRUTH must have a truth and an interpretation that is wholly correct, yet he also speaks to each of theses individauls in their way of understanding.

But then what do we do with people who seem very opposed to what seems plain to ourselves?.... The Atheist asks us the same quesiton, to them it seems painfully obvious that the old testament god was .....shall we say less that savory. You cant get them beyond their outrage. And you cant get past a persons smug religion either, for them it is obvious what ever they belive.

My oppinon on the matter is that since the mind of Christ is so large, he is able to impart different veiws of truth to each of his people. These people might have individaul theology that serves to guide their living and belief but anything they learn in life that is of truth, or causes them to see more clearly the way of the Lord, has only one source.

Jesus has a call on YOUR life, to teach YOU what he has for you. And we would all liek to see the world do it jsut like we have learned but that is a fruitless prayer. It is best not to worry about them but also important that we dont worry over ourselves with so many interpretations out there.

At some point you have to call yourself settled, because the TRUTH is that there is NO END of arguement and difference. You will never find a perfect teacher who stands unopposed. You will never even have a complete revelation for yourself....and Lord have mercy if you do because then YOU would be the one the world lines up to oppose.

 the biggest lesson i have learned is to WAIT.

Become famillier with the Holy Spirit within you. Trust, he lets you knwo the truth for you. And should you come along a few years form now and find a deeper well of truth to dive into, then Dive.  Before you found this place you where dove in, and now you swim here.

 Bottom line is Christ is going to conform your mind to His own, and he does this by working with in you, not by theology alone. Theology is a way to have witness.... The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and also  the spirit (you) the water (flow of truth) and the Blood (Christ's mercy) We offtian dont live our lives any better by conforming our minds to ciritan thoughts and teachigns and having the right form of theology. Instead we live our lives by conforming to the working of the Holy SPirit.

We are not intellectaully saved. [/i]

sonofone:
Thank both of you for your post.I make myself vulnerable to all who view this site by posting my questions. I have gone ten years now in total silence,having no one to share my thoughts with,and now I have found this site,and these people. So I decided to go for it. I am going to continue to to expose myself if you will in hopes of coming out like pure gold. Gold has to go through the fire to burn off all impurities,and for me this is part of my process. I hope that all will understand this and help me in my walk with God. There will be more questions and comments to come, so bear with me.To insane your post has especially blessed me and has spoken directly to my heart and like a arrow aimed for a particular target has found it's mark. So I thank God for you in allowing him to use you. On a different note I am surprised to ave heard from so few people on this site. While I no I should not pass any judgement in this regard,I am just a little perplexed by the silence to say the least.

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