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Jesus Church?

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sonofone:
I read Rays teaching on what happened to Jesus Church and now have some thoughts or questions. I personally have not found myself disagreeing with Ray as much as having questions that pop up based on what he has said. I want everyone here to know for future reference that a question does not have to mean disagreement. I hope that this forum can be a place to hash out some questions as I suspect Ray is pretty busy and can not possibly entertain endless questions from the masses. My question concerning the Church is more on my concept or understanding of the purpose of the Church.My basic premise for the Church stems from my understanding of Eph 4vs 11-13. I believe this scripture is still in play. If you think about it logically or at least what appears to be logical to me. The early Church was formed and had a real expectation of Christ's return in there lifetime.1st Corinthians 7vs 29-31. ch 15vs51-52 1st Thessalonians 4 vs 13-18 ch 5 vs 1-8 Hebrews10 vs22-25.Just as every generation has maintained this expectation. As we know the church being persecuted fell off so to speak. what arose from the ashes is what we now term Babylon Beginning with the Catholic Church, continuing with the Protestant Church even unto this present day. So it leads me to wonder since most of us got saved through the Church. Does God really want us to literally come out of the Church? Isn't that what Martin Luther thought he was doing. Isn't that the very reason we have so many denominations today. Everybody sees a different point,a different truth and off they go,Methodist, Baptist ,pentecostal, Seventh day Adventist. All of them essentially coming out of the Church that rose from the ashes. And now us the undeclared church,who has Christ as it's head yet bear none of the markings of Eph 4 vs 11-13. I see no scriptural reference for complete Physical detachment from the Church. Even Jesus and the Apostles continued teaching in the Synagogue. What are we doing? What gifts are in play among us that help fulfill this scripture?

YellowStone:
Hi Sonofone :)

Let me begin by saying that I have no chance of doiing your questions the justice they deserve, but I will give it a try.

I will never throw all churches in one big pile, just as I would never label every church goer as being blind to any concept of truth. My reasons are clear, because over the years I have attened many churches, being members of a few. Yet I NEVER felt part of them. I could see / feel some truth, and the love and compassion of many of the people was unquestionable. But the peices never fit, there would always be gaps in their belief that no amount of faith, trust or hope could ever bridge. Would I lump a small country church with 20 or so members with the same churchs featured on TBN? No, I would not, but then I attened none of them either.

The Truth is whole, it is complete and it is free. I do not have to buy it, have blind faith in something that cannot be explained. I do not need to "fit" in to learn it, Because Christ himself never fit in. God told his people to come out of her for a reason; I always believed it was becasue I knew I was in the wrong place. I would go to churches, not wanting to believe, but wanting to find fault in every word spoken. I always knew that one day I would find a church or a group of people whom I could not fault. I just knew I would.

And I did. :)

One night I found Rays site and started reading. It was like a voice deep inside me began screaming  Yes!!, YES!!!!!" I think I knew I had found what I was looking for after reading the first few words, the truth of those words was so profound. Is Ray the only person speaking / teaching truth? I cannot say, but I know he is.

I know now a few other important facts. He speaks from the Scritures, not from a man made doctrine. He does not require a membership or monthy dues. He does not broadcast to the masses in a huge church or building. I learned also, that he is a simple man, not haughty or pompus, oh and that he can explain in numerous ways why he believes what he does. Just as I myself can too. It is also because those who fellowship with and because of him, are not doing so for ulterior motives, to be seen with or by someone.

It is for the reasons outlined in the above paragraph, that clearly outline the differences from the many churches that I have frequented and the truth that I have found here. There is no contest. I know exactly what God meant when He said "Do not share in her plagues." It feels great to be free. The ruth does what was promised without question.

I hope this helps a little :)

Love in Christ,
Darren

dawnnnny:
Great response Darren!

I too felt the same way when I happened upon the BT site.  And when I first started participating in the forum, I truly felt like I was at a REAL church for once in my life.  I think we are so programmed to think of church as a building, yet church is a group of believers from all over the world.  There are more Ray's out there too, more teachers sharing the truth of God's word. 

I'm deprogramming myself on the saved issue (as in past tense).  I like what Ray said, called into Babylon to learn the basics, and then called out for a deeper relationship.

Sonofone, just keep reading.  I too have so many questions but I'm trying to be patient with getting answers   ;)    I'm glad you asked this question and I will be interested to see the many responses you will receive!

Blessings & Love,
Dawn

D Student:

Hello Sonofone, you wrote:
                     
  " I see no scriptural reference for complete Physical detachment from the Church. Even Jesus and the Apostles continued teaching in the Synagogue. What are we doing? What gifts are in play among us that help fulfill this scripture? "

   I'm not so sure about this. When reading things like this, it gives me the idea of Jesus and the others
speaking TRUTH to the members/visitors of the Temples before going in to be fed LIES...
   For some reason I doubt that Jesus was invited to be a guest speaker to any Synagogue/Temple.

   At times where believers in Christ met, that was the Church. No matter where they met.

   But, I'm not positive. Maybe at that time there actually were Synagogues that let OUR SAVIOR speak.

   Maybe someone else can break this down. YellowStone!?!
                                                                                          D Student <---
P.s. I'm not sure.

Gregor:
Well I honestly feel bummed out. There's nothing more impersonal than having "church" with a computer. To me, as I've read through some of these threads, I sense gnosticism and pride in some of the responses. Maybe it's just me, maybe just because I've had a rough day. I enjoy Rays teachings, but there has to be some earthly good application involved, not just some 'spiritual' message. Christ came from heaven to earth, and if we're to be like him, we must be willing to get "down and dirty," to serve both sinner and saint. Christ died for the whore that so many are so quick to jump ship from. How are they to hear the good news if we don't stay connected, or is this good news only for the new converts? blah.

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