The upright and the wicked

[iris]

Proverbs 2:21 & 22
21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Does anyone have any comments or ideals on these two scriptures?


Peace and Love
Iris

[Falconn003]

All of Proverbs 2 concerns The Reward of Seeking Wisdom.

[skydreamers]

Hi Iris, I'm a little short on time today, but I'll share what I can for now.  Here's how I would understand these verses:

Proverbs 2:21-22
21  For the upright will inhabit the land, and those with integrity will remain in it,
22  but the wicked will be cut off from the land, and the treacherous will be rooted out of it.


I understand the land as being symbolic of our "bodies" in many places in scripture.  Right now we are in our carnal bodies, so there are many giants, enemies etc. to conquer.  God's goal is to have us gain "dominion over the earth":

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth[/u] (same Hebrew word as "land" in Proverbs) and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

All the things in our carnal nature that we cling to, all the false delusions, false belief systems etc. etc. need to be conquered.  So I think that when we enter the "promise land" which could be our new spiritual bodies...or entering into being a new creature by the power of Christ we gain "dominion" over the carnality so the "sin no longer has dominion over us".  When this happens, we shall "dwell in the land" (probably the promised land).

The wicked, or maybe more accurately the wickedness in us needs to be cut off from the land (our bodies) and rooted out so that there is "no stubble" of wickedness that remains.  So the few chosen "dwell in the land" in this age, while the many are cut off, as in branches cut off from the vine.  But fear not, because what is cut off can be grafted in again by God.  And who is banished will not be outcast forever.

Romans 11:24
For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

2 Samuel 14:14
We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.


Verse 21, the righteous "shall remain" comes from the Hebrew "yathar" which can also mean "to excel" or "to abound" so perhaps we can say that the righteous will "excel" in these bodies in this age through Christ.  Certainly they will have more power to overcome sin by the power of Christ which will be given to all in the ages to come.  But for now, the wicked do not and cannot "excel" in the flesh and so must be "cut off" for a time...

Interesting to "cut off" also carries the meaning in the Hebrew:  specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces).....to cut off a body part

Perhaps this is connected to:

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,

I think ultimately this is talking about what is and will be happening in us......a cutting off of the wickedness...

What do you think?

Peace and love,
Diana

[iris]

Yes...thank you Rodger.


Diana, I hadn't looked at it quiet that way. I was thinking a little along the lines of physical instead of spiritual.
I can see what you're saying.
Thank you for sharing.


Peace and Love
Iris

[DuluthGA]

I noticed this:

Proverbs 2:10-20

When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
[11] Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:
[12] To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things;
[13] Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;
[14] Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;
[15] Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths:
[16] To deliver thee from the strange woman [MYSTERY BABYLON?? hmmmm?], even from the stranger which flattereth with her words [more of that whole whorish system, hmmm??];
[17] Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
[18] For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.
[19] None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.
[20] That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.

WHOA!  Interesting!  Thanks all!
Janice

[iris]

Janice,

Thank you for the scriptures.
They are very interesting.


Peace and Love
Iris

[Jackie Lee]

Who are the upright and perfect that will remain in the land?

[iris]

Who are the upright and perfect that will remain in the land?

That was one of the things I was trying to find out.
But no body seems to know.


Peace and Love
Iris

[hillsbororiver]

Proverbs 2:21 & 22
21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Does anyone have any comments or ideals on these two scriptures?


Peace and Love
Iris

Hi Iris,

Who are the ones who inherit the earth? Who are those who are cut off and cast into the fire?

1Sa 2:8  He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Psa 25:13  His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

Psa 37:9  For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psa 37:11  But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psa 37:22  For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Psa 82:8  Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Mat 5:5  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

The 1st Chapter of Zephaniah gives an incredible synopsis of the Judgment Day, especially look at verse 18.

Zephaniah 1

1The word of the LORD which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah.

2I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.

3I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.

4I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests;

5And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham;

6And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor enquired for him.

7Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.

8And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

9In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit.

10And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that there shall be the noise of a cry from the fish gate, and an howling from the second, and a great crashing from the hills.

11Howl, ye inhabitants of Maktesh, for all the merchant people are cut down; all they that bear silver are cut off.

12And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil.

13Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.

14The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

16A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

17And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

18Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

But of course it will eventually have a happy ending for all;

Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

P.S. Psa 33:12  Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

[sonofone]

Hey Iris, I saw your last post and wanted to respond. I started to come off the top of my head with a response, just being lazy. I decided to read the verse further and offer you what I thought, and realized I was getting ready to fall into a ditch in doing so. What ditch? Isolating scripture which almost always lead to taking them out of there original context. When in doubt read the whole passage, sometimes just reading the verse above a scripture and after a scripture will provide the necessary context. In this case I had to read the entire chapter to find what was being discussed here. Like in all cases there is a practical application here and a spiritual one. Solomon was talking here about the benefits of wisdom, starting in verse 1 with accepting God's word and storing up his commands within his heart. Hebrews 8 vs 10-12 I will put my laws in there minds, and write them on there hearts. Vs 8 in Prov 2 says that God guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones. Who is the just  and the upright?Vs 2 those that turn there ear to wisdom and apply there heart to understanding. Matthew 7 vs 24 Therefore he that heareth these sayings of mine,and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man. He that hath an ear let him hear. By doing this you will vs 5 understand the fear of the lord and find the knowledge of God. Find the path ,find the land which God guards and protects Gen 3 vs 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to Guard the way of the tree of life. So who are the wicked? Vs 12 men whose words are perverse, who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways. Was not Israel in there wickedness cut off from the land and torn from it? Practical, Spiritual application Called and chosen. I hope this helps.

[Kat]

Hi Iris,

Pro 2:21  Righteous people---people of integrity---will live in this land of ours.
v. 22  But God will snatch the wicked from the land and pull sinners out of it like plants from the ground. (GNB)

I like the way the Good News Bible says this.  And as Joe provided a host of scripture to show, I think this is the time when Christ will rule the earth and will begin to bring salvation to all.

Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[iris]

Joe, Sonofone, and kat,

I would like to thank you for your comments and for the many scriptures that you have laid out for me to read and study.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

Psalm 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

verse 11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

verse 22 For such as he be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

verse 28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever; but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

verse 29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Isaiah 57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain:

Isaiah 60:21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshipeth thee.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

There are a lot more scriptures that say that those who trust in God will inherit the earth.

Are we going to be perfect humans and live here on the earth or are we going to be spirit creatures that have no form and are invisible?

This is what is confusing me!!!

Does anyone have an answer for this???


Peace and Love
Iris

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Iris,

The elect will be perfect Sons and Daughters of God meeting and greeting Him to the earth to bring about the work of the Fall Harvest. Ray shows (Kat please help me with where in Ray's articles this is spoken of) that "meeting" the Lord means that we all return to the original destination (of the esteemed Arrivor), very much like when we anticipate a welcomed guest arriving at our home we sit by the window and when they are near we run out to greet them, bringing them into our home.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The elect will "meet" the Lord in the air and return to the earth to assist in bringing the rest of mankind to God through Judgment, the elect will already be transformed into incorruptible and immortal Sons and Daughters, to my knowledge it is not clear what state the rest of humanity will be in or what transpires after the Harvest, only that we are promised that God will be All in All and that everyone will gain Sonship, Daughtership with our heavenly Father.

As far as being here on earth the elect will inherit it with Christ until everyone is saved and the Lord presents the Father with His children, the chosen will have spiritual bodies like Christ and like Him I am sure will be able to present themselves in any form that suits the Divine purpose and plan of God in bringing everyone to Him, what happens after that is not revealed, at least to my understanding.

1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The elect with Christ will rule and judge the earth in the next age, what happens after that is pure speculation but we can be sure it will be a spiritual and not a physical existence, there may be physical entities and properties but His Children will be spirit.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,

Joe

[iris]

Joe,

Thank you so much for helping me to understand.
It makes sense now. 
I remember Ray talking about the Elect going up to meet the Lord in the air, and then coming back to the earth with him. But I can't remember in which article it was.
Thank you again Brother.


Peace and Love
Iris

[Kat]

Hi Iris and Joe,

I put together some excerpts from the article 'Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory' that I thought went along with what is being discussed 

http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm --------------------------------

It is God's plan and purpose to bring many sons into His family. When new Jerusalem descends out of heaven, it is stated that God will dwell with them on the earth. Did we think that God will be dwelling in New Jerusalem all by Himself, alone? That would, of course, defeat His very purpose of "dwelling with them."
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"And the Lord my God shall come, And all the saints WITH Him" (Zech. 14:7).

Clearly it is when He "shall come," (not after He came), that they are gathered "with Him."

Revelation 14 does not mention the Mount of Olives, but rather mount Zion, where the 144,000 are with Christ, but it doesn't say that this is the very spot on which they were gathered initially.

Matt. 24 definitely includes the Jewish saints in that assembling and the actual gathering does not take place on the Mount of Olives. If by the "air" it is speaking of the literal air in our atmosphere (rather than to the jurisdiction of power said to be in the air in Eph. 2:2, which is more likely), then there are at least three proofs that this meeting in Matt. 24 takes place in the same "air" as I Thes. 4. Read Matt. 24:31 carefully:

1. "And He shall be dispatching His messengers with a loud sounding trumpet, and they shall be assembling His chosen from the four WINDS ..." (Mat. 24:31). Webster's wind, moving AIR! (Emphasis mine).

2. "... and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with Power and much glory" (Mat. 24:30). Clouds are only found "in the air." Even fog is still "in the air." No clouds rise righter than "the air."

3. Although it doesn't actually say that Christ came from outer space to then be located on the clouds of heaven, many, nonetheless, assume such a thing. Regardless, wind is in heaven, clouds are in heaven, and air is in heaven. To come from any of them requires being "in the air." And as all astronauts know it is not possible to return to earth without going through "the air." There may be "holes" in the ozone, but there are no holes "in the air."
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We can learn something remarkable from the way that God uses the word "meet" in this Scripture.

"Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." (I Thes. 4:17).

In this verse as in three others, God uses the Greek word apatesis which is translated "to meet." It is distinguished from a half dozen other Greek words which are variously translated, "meet,' "meet with," "meeting," "meeting with," etc. The Greek word apatesis, is, however, used only three other times.

One authority tells us that this word apatesis was used in ancient times to describe the actions of an official welcoming delegation that had been sent "to meet" a visiting dignitary.

It is said that the word literally meant, "meeting and returning with." Not being an etymologist, historian, or scholar, I can't speak with any authority here, but I can use a concordance and I can read the Scriptures. Let's look at these three occasions and see if, indeed, this word carries the connotation of "meeting and returning with."

1. "Now in the middle of the night a clamor occurs: Lo! The bridegroom! Come out to meet [apatesis] Him!" (Matt. 25:6).

Comment: After they went out to meet the bridegroom, they didn't stay outside, but rather they came back inside with the Bridegroom. Remember, it is "midnight" and it is dark--that's why they took oil for their torches. They went out to meet the Bridegroom, then returned with Him to the house, and locked the door.

2. When Christ began His entrance into Jerusalem (which was itself a type of His triumphant return to Jerusalem), many people went out with palm fronds to meet Him.

"On the morrow the vast throng, who are coming for the festival, hearing that Jesus is coming into Jerusalem, got fronds of palms and came out to meet [apatesis] Him" (John 12:13).

Needless to say, they did not return with Christ back to Bethany, but returned back into Jerusalem with Christ.

3. When the saints in Rome heard of Paul's soon arrival, they went out to meet him.

"And thence the brethren, hearing about us, come to meet [apatesis] us as far as Appii Forum and Three Taverrns, perceiving whom, Paul, thanking God, took courage. Now when we entered Rome" (Acts 28:15-16).

And again, it is seen that they returned back to Rome with Paul, they did not return with Paul back to Puteoli.

The fourth time this Greek word apatesis is translated "to meet" is in I Thes. 4:17: "... we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet [apatesis] the Lord in the air."

Based on all the usage's of this word apatesis [to meet], and we read them all, when someone went out to meet someone else, where did they always go next? That's right, back where they came from. So if God is consistent with the use of this word, then when the saints of I Thes. 4 meet the Lord in the air, they will then return with Christ back to the EARTH!
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At Christ's second coming He gathers His elect and sets up His kingdom. Twice Paul tells us that the elect will be gathered at the sound of a trumpet (I Thes. 4:16), at the last trump (I Cor. 15:52), and it is then when the saints (ALL the saints, I Thes.3:13) will receive their "rest and ease" from the trials and sorrows of this life, and Paul plainly says that this will occur: "... AT the unveiling of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His powerful messengers, in flaming fire, dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are not obeying the evangel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Now this is not hard to follow. The above is Paul's description of how Christ will return for "all who believe." He comes in power and glory and is dealing out vengeance to the ungodly and is being glorified in His saints. This same description of His second coming is found in Rev 11:15-18, "... And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of this world became our Lord's and His Christ's and He shall be reigning for the eons of the eons. Amen!'... Thou hast taken Thy great power and does reign. And the nations are angered, and Thy indignation came, and the era for the dead to be judged, and to give their wages to thy slaves, the prophets, and to the SAINTS and to those fearing Thy name, the small and the great ..."
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"The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's; but the EARTH hath He given to the children of men" (Psalm 115:6). One more, "... for we are your glorying (even as you also are ours) in THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS" (II Cor. 1:14).

I seriously doubt whether anyone could prove to us that the place where God dwells, "heaven," is actually a specific geographical location so many light years from the earth on some galactic rock in outer space. In the same way "eternity" is not "a very long time." They are both a condition or a realm. God is in us, while He is in Heaven, while He is also simultaneously, EVERYWHERE!

FROM WHERE DO WE JUDGE?

1. "Or are you not aware that the saints shall judge THE WORLD? And if the world is being judged by you, are you unworthy of the least tribunals? Are you not aware that we shall be judging MESSENGERS, not to mention life's affairs?" Notice that the same "you" and "we" are to judge the "world" AND "messengers." And the judging of messengers is linked with judging "life's affairs." "Life's affairs is not something going on in OUTER SPACE! Life's affairs are things on the earth, which is the same location at which we will be "judging messengers!" And these two judgments are not separated by thousands of years.

2. I have never gone into outer space, however, guess what? I have and still do wrestle creatures among the celestials! "... for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world mights of this darkness, with spiritual forces of wickedness AMONG THE CELESTIALS" (Eph. 6:12)! Now think for a moment, if we can right here and now, from the earth, wrestle with creatures among the celestials, why can't we also judge and instruct them as well, FROM THE EARTH?

3. When Christ returns to set up His kingdom on earth, He brings the place of authority or rulership that He has prepared for the apostles with Him so that "... where I am, YOU ALSO MAY BE" (John 14:3). During Christ's reign on earth His apostles will be WITH THE LORD. Now notice I Thes. 4:17 where it is stated that when Christ returns to the Gentile saints "... thus shall we always be together WITH THE LORD ..." We also will be with the Lord on the earth, not in outer space.

There is much that could be said regarding how Christ actually comes and what He will do after He arrives. Will He literally ride out of Heaven on a flying white horse with fire shooting out of His eyes and a long sword coming out of His mouth followed by literal armies ready to do battle against the few remaining and helpless humans on earth, and all this happening while the lightning is flashing and silver trumpets are blasting? Probably NOT. But, just like the rest of Revelation, the things that these symbols, metaphors, and figurative language represent will certainly be GLORIOUS, but that's a subject for another paper. Remember that we have God's promise that the wise shall understand. We all need to pray for wisdom, that's for sure.
---------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[hillsbororiver]

Dear Sister Iris,

You are very welcome, I do love to contemplate and search for the awesome sacred secrets He has so graciously provided to us, we all should count our blessings for the Truths He freely gives to those who search Him out.

Job 11:6  And that he would show thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

Job 15:8  Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?

Pro 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Ecc 7:25  I applied mine heart to know, and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and the reason of things, and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness and madness:

Jer 29:13  And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Kat, thanks once again for providing the article(s) from Ray that helped to explain the questions at hand!

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[iris]

Kat,

Thank you so much for bringing forward the Rapture article.
It has added to my understanding. 
I can see I need to go back and read the whole article again.
Thank you Sister for the time you spent on this.


Peace and Love
Iris

[skydreamers]

Great thread everyone, thanks for putting all the work into this!

Peace,
Diana

[iris]

Great thread everyone, thanks for putting all the work into this!

Peace,
Diana

I agree , there is a lot to chew on here!!!


Peace and Love
Iris