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FOR WHAT DID PAUL VOLUNTEER?
hillsbororiver:
Hi Sue Ann,
I believe there is so much to be learned from Genesis alone, a lifetime of study just might scratch the surface, when we read the preceding verse we see that Abraham has been communicating with an angel of the Lord.
Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
You can see from the following verse the events here on earth are being observed, scrutinized and are of keen interest to the angels, the events here are also revealing to them the plan, purpose and unfailing love of their and our Creator.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
As a sidenote this word "know" in Hebrew (Yada) has many variations and subtle differences than what immediately comes to mind when reading the English translation of it.
H3045
ידע
yâda‛
yaw-dah'
A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.
Abraham's faith became readily apparent not only to the angel but was tried in the fire of Abraham himself contemplating the death of the son he had waited so long for and loved dearly, once he saw he himself ready, willing and able to carry this through do you believe he felt there was anything his faith in God could not overcome, especially seeing the ultimate mercy of the Lord?
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Deborah-Leigh:
God has ways to MAKE carnal-minded, God-defying men and women VOLUNTEER real fast!
FOR WHAT DID PAUL VOLUNTEER?
Only a relative few are participating in this judgment by fire, and they are all volunteers!
I believe that Ray expounds and clarifies his teaching on this statement with the following: Quotes in blue Ray Smith all copied from http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
Gracing us by means of chastening, TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation. Judging us by means of chastening, also TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation!
It is high time we dispense with the hypocrisy.
When God JUDGES US THROUGH CHASTENING (I Cor. 11:32) it is for our good and for our benefit and for our salvation. Why then do we think that God changes character when He likewise judges the wicked, unjust, and non-believers at the great white throne? Why? God changes NOT! God is NOT a respecter of persons. You read all of these Scriptures. Do we think the Scriptures LIE?
If you are not rejoicing over these profound and marvellous revelations, then you must be spiritually asleep. I have just shown you one of the most remarkable truths in the entirety of the Bible! You would do well to not read any further until you thoroughly grasp what has been presented here.
When Jesus desired to ask the worst sinner who had ever lived (that would be Paul):
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF," I Tim. 1:15)
To volunteer to teach the gospel to the Gentiles, He merely shined a bright light in Paul’s face to get his attention.
Paul announced much to the grief of those who loved him, who tearfully bid him farewell, that they would no longer see Paul again as he had decided to go to Rome where the Spirit of Christ had warned him of his peril if he did go. By that time of his life Paul was equipped to have seen and taught and believed that , as Ray also is euipped has seen and teaches…quote:
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE [Christians, followers of Christ] MUST through MUCH TRIBULATION [Greek: thlipsis--affliction, troubles, burdens, persecution, anguish] enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
Paul knew how to enter the kingdom of God. As Ray teaches : Quote :
"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we SUFFER with Him, that we may be also glorified together" (Rom. 8:17).
"That no man should be moved by these AFFLICTIONS: for yourselves know that we are APPOINTED thereunto" (I Thes. 3:3).
Joe you wrote to me saying : There is no argument that Saul/Paul was greatly influenced (caused) to utter these words
I was NOT arguing. I was stating a fact which is what the teachings via Ray have come to mean for me. :) and then you sayto me Joe :
you cannot say this response (What will you have me do?) does not fit this definition.
If that is what you understood Joe, then you Joe did not see that my response was being made on the awareness that no one has free will and this is NOT in contention with what Ray elaborates, sees and teaches.
You Joe take this futher and contend against me not imodestly either by saying that :
If you can't see this
If I CAN NOT see this!......
And then to conclude you offer me the advise that :
perhaps you should write Ray for a better explaination.
I do not SEE that your recommendation is either appropriate or constructive. It certainly was not recieved as being well intentioned either!
I know that I see things very differently and rest assured that I am very comfortable with what Ray is teaching thank you very much.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on September 13, 2007, 04:11:22 PM ---Hello Joe
I will respond rather to the TITLE of your post.
For me, Paul did not Volunteer. I think he was so INTENSLY AFRAID when he was blinded and fell off his horse that he said the first thing that came to mind which is what we have now on record in the Scriptures.
I do not believe Paul volunteered and I prefer to believe Christ called, chose and assigned and renamed to Paul the man HE was going to make out of deluded, deceived and sincere Saul. Christ said to Saul Acts 9 : 6 ARISE and GO into the city, and YOU WILL BE TOLD WHAT YOU MUST DO. I think CHRIST Volunteered Saul. Saul had no free will choice and what finally PAUL volunteered for was his death in Rome. Jesus equipped him and enabled him to achieve this final victory.
As ciy says so beautifully about being saved being : not a comfortable pat on the back journey. Good one ciy!
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Point taken and addressed.......
--- Quote from: Arcturus on September 14, 2007, 02:09:29 PM ---
Joe you wrote to me saying : There is no argument that Saul/Paul was greatly influenced (caused) to utter these words
I was NOT arguing. I was stating a fact which is what the teachings via Ray have come to mean for me. :) and then you sayto me Joe :
you cannot say this response (What will you have me do?) does not fit this definition.
If that is what you understood Joe, then you Joe did not see that my response was being made on the awareness that no one has free will and this is NOT in contention with what Ray elaborates, sees and teaches.
You Joe take this futher and contend against me not imodestly either by saying that :
If you can't see this
If I CAN NOT see this!......
And then to conclude you offer me the advise that :
perhaps you should write Ray for a better explaination.
I do not SEE that your recommendation is either appropriate or constructive. It certainly was not recieved as being well intentioned either!
I know that I see things very differently and rest assured that I am very comfortable with what Ray is teaching thank you very much.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Hi Arcturus,
Do you mind if I am direct in my response and how this appears, especially in light of your communication or lack thereof with me the past couple months?
When you first read my post you did not realize it was actually Ray you were challenging and not me, once you realized your error instead of a PM seeking agreement you once again attack and dispute, I am only responding publicly to your charge as this is apparantley how you prefer it.
I have no idea why you must be so confrontational, it is not necessary.
His Peace to you,
Joe
P.S. If you want to continue privately to try and resolve this I am open to it.
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you but no thank you Joe.
I shall keep a very long non-confrontational distance from you Joe for as long as string is long!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
hillsbororiver:
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Peace,
Joe
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