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[Redbird]

Dear Justine,

I am so sorry if I confused you.  If I may, the gospel according to St. John is a great place to search scriptures for this topic.

Peace and Love, Lisa

[insanezenmistress]

Dear Justine,

I am so sorry if I confused you.  If I may, the gospel according to St. John is a great place to search scriptures for this topic.

Peace and Love, Lisa

Lisa, you didnt.

[Kat]

Here is an excerpt from the Mobile conference transcript, that I think fits in to what is being discussed here.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27960.html#msg27960

So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father?  In Him we live and breath and have our being.  Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish.  The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light.  It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen.  So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God.  The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.

Now this is what the scripture say, we are in God and God is in us.  So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair.  God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.

God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you can’t see Him, not literally.  We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our intermost being.
 
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God.  I’m trying to help you right now, to see God.  So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didn’t, when you walked in here.  If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
 
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and He’ll still be after we leave.  Because this desk is here and this desk has it cohesion in Jesus Christ.  It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart.  It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and it’s passed off out of Him.  One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him.  GOD IS ALMIGHTY!

What did Jesus say when He left His apostles and vanished out of their sight.
 
He said, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,” (Matt. 28:18).
 
That’s why He has come, He’s not the Father, but He’s God and He possesses all power in heaven and earth.  By being the One, who possesses all power in heaven and earth, He is God.  He didn’t have all power in heaven and earth from all eternity, it was given to Him.  One God, everything is out of that God.  We’re in Him and He’s in us, because He’s Spirit.  Not a Spirit, in some geographical location.  The reason God knows everything, is in all places at all times, is because that’s where He is.  He’s Spirit and He refers to Himself as Spirit.  My Spirit is here, there and everywhere.

David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
There’s no place I can go, where you are not.  Why?  God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head.  He (God) tells us that, God is not a man, Jesus Christ is a man.

Where is God?  EVERYWHERE!
------------------------------------------------------

From audio 1

http://bible-truths.com/audio/9-2-06MobileConf.1.mp3

mercy, peace and love
Kathy

[insanezenmistress]

  no contest.

[hillsbororiver]

I dont want to lead anyones thinking.

We are all here to learn together Sister, it is very gratifying that we can work through this process without ego and emotions cluttering up our paths. I greatly appreciate this!

I found the topic of gnostisium interesting and really wanted to know more about it. Joe when you said that you knew alot abotu that doctrine, i was excited to glean form your learning.

I will PM you in regard to this, like I said before it has some compelling ideas but I do think it is very much in error, I do not have an issue in exploring other doctrines (personally I do it myself) but I will keep the Scriptures close to my heart as I read so as not to become of a muddled mind.    Always remembering Isaiah 8:20. 



I had my take and wanted yours. And i do not quote the scripture with chapter and verse and i am endevering to do that more.

Downloading E-Sword is a great help as is; http://www.biblegateway.com/

i accept your words in the spirit intended.

Thank you once again! 

what i want is a conversation, to seek those witnesses. I do ramble on and try to make points, and i WANT someone to correct me, jeremiah tells us our hearts are despratly wicked. ( insert chapter and verse here )

Since you asked.....  Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

.............where in the bible is God refered to as a person.....I will quest for that answer. I do not know at this time.

Here is Strongs Hebrew definition although more than one Hebrew word is tranlated into "person" some of them for no apparent reason.

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

 

.............When i say that Jesus is the father do i mean that they are the same entity? ........

             The Father has Greater Glory than the Son, the son is his glory in a form he can give to us. It is the same glory, two forms.  Because of that, i can say yes, and i can say no. Seprate yet of equal stuff.

Jesus is God, but He defers to the Father, He came out of the Father and the Father is greater than He, all Jesus has the Father gave Him. The trinity article really explains this perfectly. The term "God" is an office, a title, not a name. The President and the Vice President are both of the Executive Branch but the authority of the Vice President never is equal to or superior to the President. The Vice President serves the President. But they are both of the Executive Branch, the Vice President does not lie when he claims Executive status, but he is not equal to the President.

Joh 14:28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Joh 16:28  I came forth from the Father and am come into the world: again, I leave the world and go to the Father.

       as to the first question. Doesnt god refer to Himself? His name is IAM. persons say i am.  but i will be still on the debate and search for direct scripture.

You are right God is the "I AM" and declares Himself to His creation although He does not claim to be a person (nephesh), He is greater than any mortal (which is a part of the Hebrew definition of nephesh) man or woman.

Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Job 33:12  Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Thanks Kat!

That article explains it so much better.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[DuluthGA]

Happy for you Justine,

to learn along with Joe as guide for questions you put forth.... he is good guy.  Plus from hanging around at Da Forum... he is good teacher to complement Ray.

As you recalled... ta-da... [here is the scripture you sited in parapharsed form]:

James 3: 1-2    Don't be in any rush to become a teacher, my friends.  Teaching is highly responsible work.  Teachers are held to the strictest standards.  And none of us is perfectly qualified.  We get it wrong nearly every time we open our mouths.  If you could find someone whose speech was perfectly true, you'd have a perfect person, in perfect control of life. [MSG]

So Justine... it's good you make pivotal points from which we all learn, and so good you have been given to seek to learn from good teachers.

I'm very happy you are a forum friend!  I appreciate you!
Janice

P.S.  Simple way to look up key words in KJV:  http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kjv/

[insanezenmistress]

     Janice, thank  you  ( i hope thats the little blushy face.)

I am increasingly afraid  of getting kicked out of here. But i figure bettter let these people know who i am.....this is one place i dont have to be a hypocrite...........yet i am anyway, i think a good game but my practice is not all the time up to par.   I preach to myself ...lol.........lately my lesson has been "let go of the intllectaull clinging, knowledge is not salvation..........washing dishes in the Lord is."

bewteen these discussions and the one about the taser kid, i am seeing a bleak world horizion. and i am even more stressed to get with the personal relyance on the inner working of the Lord.

What if........What if , some day , all freedom is taken from us. how will we live your faith then? it must be something we have grown up and nurtured and grafted into our very breathing, the living in the Spirit.

but agian that is a side bar.

 I see we got way off the Life lessons, and skimmed over gnosticism, and landed on the Trinity....er.the duality.....er......the GOD. Great we have defined him.

Now....in the event of Tribulation ( a wise man once said prepare for the worse and hope for the best) can we, do we, have sustaining faith? Do we have living faith, can each of us, live with and within the LORD in a concentration camp?

 Tough thing to think about.  Perhaps a little radical.
  But better faith than sorry.

 this comment is not ment to lad us into another sid ebar , teaching that the tribulation is already in our lives.  Thats a fine teaching, and i hope there will be no terrible times.... But our country seems to be going another way.

Nations change, even christians in theses nations suffer real tribulation.
I am all for trusting god, and hopeing we got the interpretations correct. but it does not liberate us form the "tribulation" of a Nation Falling.

my only point is grow up, get to know the voice of the Lord without question, FIND your Wisdom, in all your getting GET understanding. (proverbs) When their are no more books, where will your faith be?


Sorry about the negitive note, ( not really) this thread in my idea is to share with each other the lessons we know, to confirm with one another wether we are in the faith, and learning form the same Holy SPirit.  In the after life........( that is in a time of tyrrany) By this shal lwe be known of each other........that we Love the Lord.

Justine

[sonofone]

Insane, I'm no moderator,so I can't say this with certainty. I don't believe it's so much about what you say here,but your overall spirit or purpose in posting that might warrant you getting kicked out. I don't think you have to be a Ray parrot in order to stay here. I do believe that you have to hold yourself subject to the rules of the forum.After all this forum was setup for those who aspire to grow and learn due in large part to the teachings of Ray. I don't consider myself to be a Ray clone, not suggesting that anyone else is. I do however respect his teachings and more importantly his efforts to both dig and make available his results of that digging for any one to either learn or challenge or disprove. So I think you are fine Insane,wether you are right or wrong in telling what you believe you cause us to dig and I've seen you submitt your reasoning to what is true even in this very same post. So please continue to do what you do I look forward to hearing you.

[Kat]

Hi Justine,

Yes this life is full of 'what ifs,' But are those needless worries?  Those what ifs may never come to pass and the worry we had about them is useless.

Luke 10:41  And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things.
v. 42  But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her."

It may be so that there will be dire things to come on this world before the return of Christ.  But it is all the purpose and plan of God, what better place to be than in His loving care.

Mat 6:25  "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
v. 26  Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
v. 27  Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
v. 28  "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
v. 29  and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
v. 30  Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
v. 31  "Therefore do not worry, saying, "What shall we eat?' or "What shall we drink?' or "What shall we wear?'
v. 32  For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
v. 33  But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
v. 34  Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

p.s. Thanks for the KJV word search link Janice, I'll put it in with the other Bible helps info  

[LittleBear]

Hi Justine,

I believe God has each of us exactly where He wants us. Some of us are are going through tribulation, some desire more knowledge, some are basking in the love and peace of God, some are struggling, some are outspoken, some quiet. Different personalities, various temperaments and gifts. It's all wonderful.

You say:

Nations change, even christians in theses nations suffer real tribulation.
I am all for trusting god, and hopeing we got the interpretations correct. but it does not liberate us form the "tribulation" of a Nation Falling.

We will all go through tribulation at some point, and God teaches us to rely on Him during these times. Whether it is a personal trial in our own lives, or if it is an immense national catastrophe, we will endure in Him. Our heavenly Father keeps us safe, so as per Kat's post, there is no need to worry.

We may not even have the correct interpretations about everything. Who really does? How did those chosen of God in the Dark Ages endure? How much knowledge did they actually have when "the church" tried to keep them in the dark? Yet somehow, they did go on, and they were the chosen, and God took care of them. I'm so thankful that He can do anything. He is totally awesome!

Thank you for your honesty in your post. You are who God made you and you are precious.

Love,

Ursula

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Gregor,

I sincerely apologize as I removed your post by mistake, I clicked "remove" instead of "reply" and even clicked to verify, that is what I get for being in a hurry.

But in response to your observation about "do not worry" having a spiritual meaning rather than a physical I say, how about both?

It is written not to murder, Jesus says do not hate, if we do not hate we are less likely to murder.

Thou shalt not commit adultery, Jesus says do not lust, if we do not lust we are less likely to commit adultery.

If we are temperate in all things we will live accordingly so by following His spiritual laws we shall be better equipped to do well in the physical world.

I believe these verses testify to that;

Mat 6:31  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or What shall we drink? or Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
 
Mat 6:32  (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 6:34  Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

There is a difference between faith and being presumptuous, if we wake up in the morning and faithfully do what is required to provide for our families we are doing well in His eyes, if instead we turn off the alarm clock roll over and go back to sleep missing work and justify our actions by saying I am faithfully trusting in the Lord, we are not fooling anyone, especially Him.
 
1Ti 5:8  But if any provide not for his own and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

So I agree we must use our physical labor to provide where we can but to stress over things outside our control, what is the use?

Are there any verses in the NT that deal with the apostles complaining about Rome or what they should do about Rome's iron clad rule over Israel, did they not faithfully go about the business of God depending on Him to provide when and where it was outside their own power to do anything to overcome the circumstances they faced?

On another note we often try to limit or too narrowly define some Scripture with the words either, or, only, physical, literal, spiritual, etc. when in fact His Word is so much more powerful than that, much of the Word is deeper and more textured than we can truly grasp. Seeking the spiritual though does pay dividends in the physical as well, our spiritual fruits of the spirit should manifest themselves as we are still in the flesh or else it is all just empty words.

Again, I am truly sorry for deleting your post, it was not intentional, just a result of being in too much haste.

His Peace to you,

Joe

 

[Gregor]

Thanks for the reply Joe, I was wondering what happened to my post. In any case, I agree with what you said. I think that the meanings of scripture are both literal in some ways and figurative in others. Or both at the same time. I also think that even without the deeper meanings we are able to "love one another." Simple, yet challenging. God is good. God is sovereign and it is a pleasure to be able to discuss and learn here in this forum. Thanks to all for the input/edification. May we all continue to grow.
Your brother in Christ,
G.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Gregor


You say : I think that the meanings of scripture are both literal in some ways and figurative in others.

I see this as Absolute and Relative. Ray has identified this concept in one of his teachings that was quintessential for me in my path to learning to understand the Word of God.  As Ray says :

    .....there is a little more to the mysteries of God than meet the eyes.....http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2252.0.html

You observe : God is good. God is sovereign and it is a pleasure to be able to discuss and learn here in this forum.

I believe that is part of why we are here to encourage one another to integrate the Truth we have received through discussion encouragement and exhortation as that Truth becomes part of our lives, thoughts and being.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

I believe that is part of why we are here to encourage one another to integrate the Truth we have received through discussion encouragement and exhortation as that Truth becomes part of our lives, thoughts and being.

AMEN to that Arcturus!


Gregor,

Thank you for your response, even though we can experience some bumps in the road here at the Forum I am so thankful we have a place to learn, share and grow together. Developing patience is also a bi product albeit a very important part of enduring through some of the more difficult moments.

I thank God for all of my Brothers and Sisters here.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe