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sonofone:
My wife and I have been attending a church now together for about two months. My wife is yet a babe in her spiritual growth and needs to be in a church to feel connected to God. I have my own beliefs about church, suffice it to say I could live without it. Nonetheless we have been going to this one church as I said for nearly two months now. I felt compelled after about a week of attending service to request an audience from the pastor of the church concerning an issue I wanted him to address. The church boast over 300 active members and over 2000 members on the roll.So getting a one on one with the pastor is as hard as sitting down with the president of the USA. So I was assigned a District Elder to address my concern. So I talk with the district Elder and tell him I have an issue with the church teaching tithes. He says that's OK brother you just haven't been taught,stick around and you will learn.Sensing that he did not understand me, I say no I understand the message, I just don't agree with it. Once again he says when the pastor teaches the class in sound doctrine you can ask him all the questions you need to.I left the conversation realizing that I really did not get anywhere with him,but I moved on. In the meantime every service and I mean this literally the Pastor gets up and finds a way to get tithing into every message. Out of nowhere a reference comes up to tithing totally unrelated to what he was preaching about,almost like a subliminal message. You're robbing God you have on God's socks,so on and so forth.So I request a second meeting with the elder and tell him I can't wait for a class on tithing I need to be heard now. So he meets with me the following Sunday after church,and I'm sitting down with him giving him some background info when all of a sudden he ask me to get to the point. So I blurt it out.I see no scriptural authority for anyone to teach tithing for the Newtestament church. I could have knocked him over with a feather. I said that the scripture everyone uses in Malachi is misapplied and cannot set a foundation for teaching tithes anymore then Jesus telling his Disciples that they could take up serpents,and drink deadly poisons.I said to him at what part of the service would you bring out the snakes,and poison and have everyone test the legitimacy of there salvation? So as if he had no idea what I was talking about he says OK so you believe tithing is wrong. I say yes. He says I am going to get my scriptures together and get back with you. So again I leave frustrated nothing resolved. Days go by no word from the Elder. So I call him and say am I supposed to be calling you? I heard you say that you would get back with me but haven't heard from you?He apologizes says he's been really busy. So finally I say hey I need to talk with the Pastor,no offence.So I draft an Email which I wish I could post here for you to read.Two pages in all I outline as brief as I could every conceivable argument for tithing and address them with several scriptures for each point. It's been two weeks no word from the Pastor. So last Sunday The Elder says he's ready to talk with me so I'm hopeful that I will finally get resolution. I failed to mention I also gave a copy of the letter to the Elder for him to read as well. He takes me into a room restates my objection,and this is his response to my letter. Thank you for your letter, I am not here to get into a debate or argument with you because God's word is settled already in heaven,and the scriptures are of no private interpretation. Tithing is a eternal doctrine established through Abraham when he paid tithes to Melchizedek, which was a type of Christ and predates the law. Tithing is also necessary to help fund the church,because the church has to be supported with money.No scriptures ever given no reference to the scriptures I gave him, just that statement which he made clear was not open for debate or argument. So I made a statement to him which I still am not sure he heard. I also wrote it in my two page letter. I said I can give you 100 scriptures showing that what you said is not factual,and all you need to do is give me one scripture to support what you just said. I said because even if I gave you 100 scriptures out the same bible you have in your hand you still would go on believing as you do. No response given. Jesus told the Pharisees to search the scriptures for in them they think they have eternal life.100 to 1 was a facetious point of course.I just wanted to get the conversation rooted in scriptures and away from dogmatics statements and opinions.Once again I left frustrated no resolution. I am hoping my wife can see the total folly in this situation and realize the hypocrisy of the church with it's false teachings. I think she is beginning to see it.She asked me after it was over why can't they see what is so plain for you to see? I told her because they can't afford to. They are currently mortgaging a church that cost is in the millions. If they reversed the train on tithing,they could expect the offerings to go down tremendously,which could possibly bankrupt the ministry. I asked her what would you do if you were trying to protect your self interest? A lightbulb went off in her head. Pray for us. Thanks

hillsbororiver:
Hi sonophone,

This is an uphill battle to be sure, I went through a similar situation with my wife's pastor before she left her (Baptist) church, he just would not even answer emails always citing "too busy," I have a strong suspicion time was always found to count the money though. The love of the Word is not in them.

2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 
2Pe 2:2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
 
2Pe 2:3  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

We will be praying for you both,

Joe

DuluthGA:
I read your post with interest.... this part was funny...

"I said that the scripture everyone uses in Malachi is misapplied and cannot set a foundation for teaching tithes anymore than Jesus telling his Disciples that they could take up serpents, and drink deadly poisons."   :D

Praying for you two!
Janice

javajoe:
Sonofone,

I agree with Joe.  This is an uphill battle, more like Mount Everest.  I've told one of the lead elders at my church and the pastor at my former church the same thing about tithing.  They won't get it, they have too much of a compelling interest.  If you press it any more, you may be seen as a divisive person and may have to go through "church discipline".  If your wife is in agreement, I'd say just move on,  But be sensitive to your wife, you don't want anything to harm your marriage.  The sermon I heard last Sunday was not about tithing, but giving sacrificially, even using an example of one of the flock giving up vacation to give the money to church.  Giving to church, in his mind, was the same as giving to God.  They know how to make you feel guilty.  I am planning on leaving sometime soon.   I am convinced more than ever that the church was not meant to be buildings and programs.  God bless you and your wife, I pray that you work out a resolution through the guidance of the Holy Spirit!


JavaJoe


P.S.  By the way,  his line about Abraham giving 10% predating the law really has no merit.  Circumcision predated the law also and no pastor I know is eager to compel their males to get circumcised!!

Craig:

--- Quote from: javajoe on September 25, 2007, 01:02:09 AM ---Sonofone,

I agree with Joe.  This is an uphill battle, more like Mount Everest.  I've told one of the lead elders at my church and the pastor at my former church the same thing about tithing.  They won't get it, they have too much of a compelling interest.  If you press it any more, you may be seen as a divisive person and may have to go through "church discipline".  If your wife is in agreement, I'd say just move on,  But be sensitive to your wife, you don't want anything to harm your marriage.  The sermon I heard last Sunday was not about tithing, but giving sacrificially, even using an example of one of the flock giving up vacation to give the money to church.  Giving to church, in his mind, was the same as giving to God.  They know how to make you feel guilty.  I am planning on leaving sometime soon.   I am convinced more than ever that the church was not meant to be buildings and programs.  God bless you and your wife, I pray that you work out a resolution through the guidance of the Holy Spirit!


JavaJoe


P.S.  By the way,  his line about Abraham giving 10% predating the law really has no merit.  Circumcision predated the law also and no pastor I know is eager to compel their males to get circumcised!!

--- End quote ---



--- Quote ---JavaJoe writes in another thread...
So what is the fuss about?  What is the danger of believing in the Trinity, or maybe the Twinity?  If you believe Jesus is your savior, and the savior of the whole world why even divide on such a thing?
--- End quote ---

JavaJoe, I'm not doing this to pick on you but to bring out an error we all make from time to time. 

What is the danger in believing in Tithing?  If you believe Jesus is your savior, and the savior of the whole world why even divide on such a thing?

What is the danger in believing in hell? If you believe Jesus is your savior, and the savior of the whole world why even divide on such a thing?

What is the danger in believing in the Pre-trib Rapture?  If you believe Jesus is your savior, and the savior of the whole world why even divide on such a thing?

What is the danger in believing in anything that is not true?  If you believe Jesus is your savior, and the savior of the whole world why even divide on such a thing?

A little lie mixed with truth hurts the whole Word of God and eventually corrupts even the basic truths.  As an old story goes, if I used a recipe to make the worlds best brownies and made a batch of 100 these brownies would you want to eat them?  What if you found out I put pinch of dog crap in the mix, would you want to eat them then?

Always guard the truth!

Blessing!
Craig


Sorry Sonofone for highjacking your thread.  As has been said you have an uphill battle ahead of you.  I pray that if God keeps you there, you will be able to help others see the truth.   And if God calls you out of there, you will have the strength to leave.

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