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Vengance is mine saith the Lord?

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sansmile:
Hi sonofone,

I have only a little time to answer this. If anyone could post the scriptures after please do. What i see is, to concur with Kats post, is that eve had the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life in her EVEN BEFORE she ate. Adam choose eve over God. They Both were created in vanity.
And Christ said to even think lustfully in thy mind is sinning. So they were created with ability to sin.  God knew they would eat of that tree because THEY HAD TO, to gain knowledge. Part of the process of His creating.
Hope u understand what i trying to say sorry it is rushed.

God Bless

Sansmile

sonofone:
Hi Kat if what you are saying is in disagreement with what I have said then I guess we will have to agree to disagree for now.I think I laid out a pretty good argument by way of the scriptures and a good use of logic that Adam unlike us had a choice and was not shackled by the weight of sin like us.

sonofone:
Sin entered the world through disobedience,not birth.wherefore as by one man sin entered the world and death by sin.For as by one mansdisobedience many were made sinners,so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.As for the three points of temptation that Eve experienced Ist John 2 vs 16 consider vs 9 Gen chp2 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is PLEASNT TO THE SIGHT,AND GOOD FOR FOOD. This is not sin or sinful.Sin is missing the mark The three points of temptation only lead to sin they are not in and of themselves sin.The original sin if you will was mans disobedience to Gods instruction period.

Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Gregor

I do not believe there is any major differences between what we have been brought to understand by the Spirit. We can fine tune our WORDS and correct our perceptions to make for purer understanding. I believe this is where the benifit of fellowship is present and constructive.

You say :the emotion of hate itself is neither good nor bad, but depends on where it is directed,

For me that is like saying that the Atomic Bomb is neither good or bad but it depends on where it is detonated ;D

Okay that is a major extreme but bring it down to other emotions like saying, the emotion of lust itself is neither good nor bad, but depends on where it is directed or any other negative emotion....Emotions like words and like thoughts we will be held accountable for.

Sonofone this scripture might help you see more concerning the fact that Eve was carnal before she was tempted. That she could be tempted and sin, means that she was not in Gods image. Jesus was tempted yet without sin because He is the Image of God. Here is a Scripture that forms part of the response to Gergor regarding our emotions and our heart condition that begins as being spiritually weak by God's design and purpose. Our hearts will be purified.


Rev 20 : 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged by what they had done, their whole way of FEELING AND ACTING, THEIR AIMS AND ENDEAVORS in accordance with what was recorded in the books.

Gregor, let me add,  another Scripture. I am sure you know what the fruits of the Spirit are. Hate is not one of them. That is why I find no place for it in the vocabulary of the nature and wisdom of God into whos Image we are being made.

Many will feel God's wrath and see it as fury and anger when actually it is judgment with a purpose quite unlike the carnal hate of man against man who detonated his lust for power victory and opposition to the death of countless Japanese people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just my view point.  :)

Matt 5 : 43 You have heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbours and hate your enemy. But I TELL you LOVE....

The way God loves and the way God hates is not the same as the WAY man loves and hates. It will be one day.....Till then we, are being made into His image that is a work in progress.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Kat:

Hi sonofone,

It sounds like you are saying Adam could have chosen not to sin, by not choosing the tree of good and evil.  Are you thinking at that time he could have chosen the tree of Life, Jesus Christ?

John 6:44  No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Adam is considered to have commited the first sin, that is why it says "through one man sin entered the world," it's to say he got it started, so to speak. 

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Here is an email that goes into Adam and Eve a bit.

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#will ------------------------

[Ray replies]

Well of course we are getting into a mature subject here, and I certainly would not expect Sunday School children to understand it, it does take some spiritual maturity.

God ABSOLUTELY has raised up people for the EXPRESS PURPOSE OF SINNING so that God could show His power in the earth by simply CONTRAST. See Rom. Chapter nine. (I notice that you are not one to be burdened by quoting Scriptures to back up your statement). Pharaoh was raised up for the EXPRESS purpose of GOING AGAINST God's will and SINNING so that God could then DESTROY HIM. Read it. Paul plainly says so. Stop using human arguments and reasoning. If you can't show me by the Scriptures, then you can't show me.

God planted the true of the knowledge of good and evil, not Satan. And God planted it right in the midst of the Garden where Adam and Eve would surely see it. God watched as Satan maneuvered his way to Eve so as to deceive her. God watched the whole thing! Stop believing that God is surprised or shocked by the actions of His creatures--He is NOT!   Besides, the tree contained the knowledge of  GOOD! Or did you never notice that? It was GOOD that they ate of the tree. It was GOOD that they disobeyed God. God   KNEW THAT THEY WOULD SIN AND DISOBEY FROM LONG BEFORE HE EVER CREATED THEM. 

How stupid do you think God is?  It is blasphemy the way people talk about God and give Him no more reasoning powers or abilities than sinful men. It is a SHAME. God knew exactly was HE was doing and He knew exactly everything that Adam and Eve WOULD DO. He is GOD. He knows ALL.

The Lamb of God was "slain from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD," the Scriptures tell us. Not from the "sin of Eve."  God made provision for the salvation of Adam and Eve BEFORE HE EVER CREATED THEM--that is Scripture! That is not mans' theories! 

One last thought for you. God DID create men spiritually weak so that they cannot resist sin. "ALL have sinned..."It obviously IS God's will that for a time we go AGAINST His will. But. . .BUT, NO ONE EVER goes against God's "INTENTION." There is a giant difference. Paul's detractors ask in Roman's nine, "For who has gone against God's INTENTION?" And the answer is, absolutely NO ONE. It could not even BE God's will that all be saved, unless first ALL ARE LOST! 

If only theologians could come to understand that God is not running a damage control center from His throne of the universe. God is NOT picking up the pieces. He is not trying to get things back to being as good as they once were. He is not trying to figure out how to outsmart Satan. He is not falling behind, numerically, as far as how many will be saved and how many will be lost. God is far smarter and wiser and the stupid men who come up with these insane and blasphemous theories and doctrines.

God has a PLAN. (Wow, now there's a revelation for theologians). And God is working out that plan to perfection on a perfect schedule, and He will loose NOTHING! Paul tells us in Rom. 11:36 that ALL is out of God and THROUGH God and FOR God. God is creating man in His OWN IMAGE. It is a PROCESS. That process is on perfect schedule. It WILL be successful. Christ IS the saviour of the world and therefore, He WILL SAVE THE WORLD. How can you be a minister of the gospel and doubt God's ability to save all of His children? That's insane.

Anyway, I gotta go, I have many more e-mails to answer.

May God guide you into His perfect will.

Sincerely,

Ray

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