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Author Topic: Only the elect are raised spiritual  (Read 15939 times)

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indianabob

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2007, 01:34:10 AM »

Good evening Word Student and welcome to the forum.    :)

I don't recall reading your name before.
Have you read Bible Truths for several months?
I'm sure we all would like to get to know you better.

Please share as much as is comfortable for you.

I especially liked your comment about our needing to dig for spiritual food.
I often wonder how and when in our lives that this give and take with Jesus began.  I imagine it was long before we realized the fact.

I understand that God provides the initial impetus for our interest and then we, with God's continual encouragement and prodding, seek more and more of His truth through the indwelling spirit of our Lord Jesus.  What a marvelous challenge and opportunity we have been given.

Thank you for your message and please write often.

Bob
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DuluthGA

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2007, 03:02:23 AM »

Hi!

I appreciate your post, especially

Quote
These discussions are not fruitless even though they do not lead to immediate understanding.  They are most excellent exercise for our hearts and minds as we try to remember what we've learned.

R.I.G.H.T.O.  B.I.G.T.I.M.E. :D [Only in HIS TIME ;)]

And WELCOME to the BT forum,
Janice
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UncleBeau

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 02:47:14 PM »


Paul states this;

Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We know those that are with Christ are the 'overcomers' those that are called, chosen and faithful to the end.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

So those raised in the likeness of Christ's resurrection are those that are with Him. How was Christ raised? A spiritual body. How do we know? well we know that He appeared in many different forms which would only be possible had He been a spiritual being ABLE TO take any form He pleases, even the one of His body that had been crucified.



Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Notice this doesn't give a location. This tells how we shall be, correct?

How was He raised a spiritual body? I thought spirit couldn't be seen. I realize:
 1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


When? Notice this:
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


I may be on the wrong track, but as far as the resurrection of the dead, this says:

1 Corinthians 15:35-36
35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


Either way, this doesn't seem to separate any people from all being resurrected differently at the resurrection. Actually, it proves that people MUST die in order to be resurrected. We know some are appointed to life when others are appointed to chastisement, but if they were resurrected in physical bodies, would they not need to be punished in physical fire like most Christian Doctrine suggests?
your friend,

-Beau




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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 08:34:23 AM »

Hi Beau,

I'm sure of one thing,  Christendom teaches these will be tortured forever and ever. And the scriptures teach us that Christ's Rule only lasts for an age [aion].

Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.[Cor 15-24]

This verse speaks nothing of a "eternal" chastisment, but rather a age which Christ rules.

What did Paul mean when he said "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Obviously "Sleep" is death.  But what is changed, if we are raised back to a physical body, what changed?, Or does this verse speak only of those chosen?

I dunno.

Chris R
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UncleBeau

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2007, 12:21:04 PM »

Hi Chris,

Um... I don't want to sound rude, but what you wrote has almost nothing to do with what I stated. Your reply is covered in a lot of Ray's papers. Besides, "eternal" has nothing to do with time anyway. If the chastisement itself is spiritual, then why would they need physical bodies? We have to remember 1 Cor. 2:13.
What I was referring to was that it was said(not sure by who at this point) that only the elect will be resurrected in spiritual bodies while everyone else will be resurrected in physical bodies. If there's scripture on at least that much, I'd most appreciate seeing it. Anyway, I hope there's no confusion.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2007, 12:36:20 PM »


Hi Beau,

Ray has made the comment in an email that the wick with be raised with a physical body to face judgment. 
I think the judgment will be such that they will have to learn to live righteous lives, while still physical first, before going on the receive a spiritual glorified body.

 Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Here is the email.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5547.0.html -------

  COMMENT:  Actually I have NEVER written about "the second death" as yet, and I have never said that when someone dies that they, "are no more."  When a person dies they are not conscious, and their body decays, and their spirit returns to God, but there is no consciousness IN THE SPIRIT. It is the spirit that gives LIFE TO THE BODY, and so without a living body, there is no consciousness. Jesus will save them by bringing them back to life through RESURRECTION. The righteous believers will be resurrected with glorified spiritual bodies, and the wicked unbelievers with physical bodies to face Judgment. It is in Judgment that the wicked will be ultimately saved.
------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2007, 05:10:36 PM »


Paul states this;

Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We know those that are with Christ are the 'overcomers' those that are called, chosen and faithful to the end.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

So those raised in the likeness of Christ's resurrection are those that are with Him. How was Christ raised? A spiritual body. How do we know? well we know that He appeared in many different forms which would only be possible had He been a spiritual being ABLE TO take any form He pleases, even the one of His body that had been crucified.



Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Notice this doesn't give a location. This tells how we shall be, correct?

How was He raised a spiritual body? I thought spirit couldn't be seen. I realize:
 1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


When? Notice this:
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


I may be on the wrong track, but as far as the resurrection of the dead, this says:

1 Corinthians 15:35-36
35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


Either way, this doesn't seem to separate any people from all being resurrected differently at the resurrection. Actually, it proves that people MUST die in order to be resurrected. We know some are appointed to life when others are appointed to chastisement, but if they were resurrected in physical bodies, would they not need to be punished in physical fire like most Christian Doctrine suggests?
your friend,

-Beau






Hello beau, thank you for your reply.

Spirit is invisible you are correct. Yet spirit is powerful and invisible like the wind. Spirit can take my forms. God who is spirit, appeared as a burning bush in the old testement to moses, he appeared as a pillar of fire in the night sky. He has appeared in many forms, and this time, Christ took His spiritual body and used that power to make Himself visible to those around Him, for there benefit. He was not ressurected in the carnal fleshy body that He died in, but rather a spiritual body that could take whatever form He pleased.

I also disagree with your last statement as well, because i live in a physical body right now, and am being judged and being baptized in fire but that doesn't mean God is literaly sticking me in a fire pit of some sort to teach me lessons, or that He is raining down physical fire and brimstone upon my head to teach me. That sounds almost rediculous. Of what good would it be to physicaly harm us?

But you see, God is like fire in certain ways. His judgements are likened to fire because of what fire can do, and not because he will actualy use literal fire.


Not sure if that helps you at all.

God bless,

Alex
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UncleBeau

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2007, 05:29:56 PM »


Paul states this;

Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We know those that are with Christ are the 'overcomers' those that are called, chosen and faithful to the end.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

So those raised in the likeness of Christ's resurrection are those that are with Him. How was Christ raised? A spiritual body. How do we know? well we know that He appeared in many different forms which would only be possible had He been a spiritual being ABLE TO take any form He pleases, even the one of His body that had been crucified.



Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Notice this doesn't give a location. This tells how we shall be, correct?

How was He raised a spiritual body? I thought spirit couldn't be seen. I realize:
 1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


When? Notice this:
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


I may be on the wrong track, but as far as the resurrection of the dead, this says:

1 Corinthians 15:35-36
35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


Either way, this doesn't seem to separate any people from all being resurrected differently at the resurrection. Actually, it proves that people MUST die in order to be resurrected. We know some are appointed to life when others are appointed to chastisement, but if they were resurrected in physical bodies, would they not need to be punished in physical fire like most Christian Doctrine suggests?
your friend,

-Beau






Hello beau, thank you for your reply.

Spirit is invisible you are correct. Yet spirit is powerful and invisible like the wind. Spirit can take my forms. God who is spirit, appeared as a burning bush in the old testement to moses, he appeared as a pillar of fire in the night sky. He has appeared in many forms, and this time, Christ took His spiritual body and used that power to make Himself visible to those around Him, for there benefit. He was not ressurected in the carnal fleshy body that He died in, but rather a spiritual body that could take whatever form He pleased.

I also disagree with your last statement as well, because i live in a physical body right now, and am being judged and being baptized in fire but that doesn't mean God is literaly sticking me in a fire pit of some sort to teach me lessons, or that He is raining down physical fire and brimstone upon my head to teach me. That sounds almost rediculous. Of what good would it be to physicaly harm us?

But you see, God is like fire in certain ways. His judgements are likened to fire because of what fire can do, and not because he will actualy use literal fire.


Not sure if that helps you at all.

God bless,

Alex


I understand what fire represents. I want to know WHY anyone would need physical bodies and WHERE the scripture is to support the idea.

you say:
Quote
Christ took His spiritual body and used that power to make Himself visible to those around Him, for there benefit. He was not ressurected in the carnal fleshy body that He died in, but rather a spiritual body that could take whatever form He pleased.

Jesus said:
Luke 24
 37)But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

 38 )And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

 39)Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 40)And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

 41)And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

 42)And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

 43)And he took it, and did eat before them.


your friend,

-Beau
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2007, 06:42:28 PM »



I understand what fire represents. I want to know WHY anyone would need physical bodies and WHERE the scripture is to support the idea.


Hi Beau,

I am not sure the scripture is there that definitively states the type of body that will be raised, but in either case the fire is not literal, physical fire, it is a spiritual purifying process.

We know that everything Christ says or does has an incredible depth of meaning(s), often many layers deep, what do you suppose might be the reason for the dead being raised in His and the apostle's days. We know that these miracles showed the power given to Him from the Father, but what else? Was this also a shadow/type of the future raising of those who have yet to be spiritually saved, purified?

This was my response to Alex when he originally posted this topic;

 
You bring up an interesting topic Alex.

I have given thought to this from time to time and have yet to come up with a definitive answer, but I believe that perhaps a clue (type/shadow?) to this may be in the resurrection of those (such as Lazarus) who were raised from the dead during Christ's earthly ministry and also those raised by the apostles.

We know they were not raised in spiritual bodies and we know they were not raised immortal or perfect, they were just not dead anymore. We can safely assume they continued to sin, have trials, problems, tears, even judgment.

There is so much depth to the Scriptures and usually we can find multiple lessons in the verses contained within it. So maybe there is more to be gleened from these resurrections than an awesome display of the power of God grabbing the attention of those who witnessed them.

I have thought this may be a clue as to the condition of those raised but not "changed" still in a carnal condition not yet converted. Those who were raised at that time may possibly have been chosen to be of the elect and converted after Pentecost (no one was before), then, as every other overcomer at His return will then receive their spiritual bodies.

Anyway, that is my present understanding.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2007, 07:03:06 PM »


Hi Beau,

When Jesus manifested Himself to the Disciples, He would come to them in an actual physical human body, because you can not see spirit.  In Luke 24 Jesus explains this in verse 39 "...for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have."  So if He was in Spirit form, they would not have been able to see Him, right.

The scripiture that states anyone is raised spirit is in I Cor 15, where Paul is talking to the believers about being raised in the first resurrection to immortality.  
Here is the white throne judgment - the resurrection of the dead, nothing about being raised to spiritual immortality here.

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v.12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
v.13  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
v.14  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
v.15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is also the judgment in Revelation, it says that it will be on the earth, which is the dwelling place for physical humans.  As heaven is the dwelling place for spirit beings.

Rev 14:6  And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and kindred and tongue and people,
v.7  saying with a great voice, Fear God and give glory to Him! For the hour of His judgment has come.

This is how I see it, hope it will help  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2007, 07:57:32 PM »

Find Ray's teaching on the following verse:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

Ponder this a while.  It is the soul that gives us our carnal knowledge and being.  Those elect that are judged in this age have overcome the world, flesh, carnality, etc so they are spotless in the next age.  Those who are called but not elect will enter the next age with their carnality still in tact and will have to be purged and scourged out of them in the LOF or destroyed.  In other word, they will have on dirty garments and the saints will have on clean, white garments at the beginning of the next age.

I believe this holds true to Ray's teaching.
CIY


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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2007, 08:40:52 PM »

Hello beau,

I wanted to let you know i did read your responce. I struggle to see where your point of Jesus being raised in a physical body is made clear.

I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree on this and continue praying for guidance from the Lord.

God bless,

Alex
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UncleBeau

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2007, 02:55:42 PM »

I really tried not to respond again (albeit not too hard apparently), but to believe anything but the scriptures is foolish. If Jesus wasn't resurrected in His body, (just like the one He died in, so we don't get confused on the matter) then where did His body Go? Did He not receive visitors to His grave? Were they not told He wasn't there? If His body was still there in the tomb, they would most likely believe He WAS still there! (the Old Testament Scriptures knew nothing of going anywhere other than Sheol when someone died.) Did His body just disappear? Don't tell me He was in a spiritual body and manifested PHYSICAL evidence of holes in His hands and side for Thomas and others to literally deceive them when it only "appeared" that it was really the same Jesus that died on the cross. I assure you, the holes in His hands, were the SAME holes made by real, physical nails. If He was in a "new" body, then there were no holes and Jesus manifested "fake" holes as proof of something that wasn't real, just to appease someone that doubted. If I were them, and someone just "manifested" fake evidence, I wouldn't believe it AFTER the claim. The Jesus that died on the cross, was the same Jesus that gave proof His resurrection, same body, same Jesus. Like I said before, where is the scripture that claims otherwise? Sorry, but I have to let the matter rest on this response as far as I'm concerned, I'm not allowed to teach in here, neither am I making that attempt, just to give truth as I know it; but this is becoming fruitless.

your friend,

-Beau   
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2007, 03:47:45 PM »

I believe if you read the following there might be some helpful clarity gained :)

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1199.0.html

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3213.0.html

As another observation here is a post in the Forum from April of last year written by a guest Steve Crook who wrote the following : Quote from ref http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html

This may seem to way out there on the scale of crazy questions, but if folks saw Christ in many different forms after he ressurreced, and they did see him according to their accounts (fisherman is good example), then why do we think Christ couldn't possibly appear today as a various person from time to time. Is, Was, and Will be.

I guess I'm saying that I don't rule it out as a possibility. However, I don't think that unless Christ revealed himself as being Christ, that anyone would know it was Christ, just as though his disciples literally walked and talked with the man and didn't even know him.

I know the new bodies we receive, if like Christ's, will have the ability to transcend material objects and shape themselves into whatever we will need them for. Pretty cool stuff, though our Father's Will will at that point be the only thng we use to do anything

It will all be great! NO more pain, suffering, bondage, etc., etc.

God bless


Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2007, 03:49:03 PM »

Hi Beau,

In an email to Ray, this question/statement was raised;


Physical or Spiritual?
« on: September 24, 2007, 06:59:16 AM »

I believe Jesus rose in a spiritual body because of 1st Corinthians 15 and I also believe we will rise in a spiritual body, but I am a little confused. When Jesus rose from the dead His earthly body was gone, and the disciples were able to see and touch the holes in his hands, feat, and sides.
Luke 24:39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
[41] And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
[42] And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
[43] And he took it, and did eat before them.
 
Please explain this to me.
 

Dear Miykael:
Yes, Jesus was raised with a spiritual body, however, those who are born of the spirit are "like the wind" (John 3:08). In order for Jesus to prove that He was the same Jesus that was crucified, He had to manifest Himself in a physical manner for His disciples to see Him.  He manifested Himself to the two men on the road to Emmaus in a physical body;  He manifested Himself to the women in the Garden as the Gardner; He manifested Himself on the lakeside as a yet another body. Jesus was able to "appear in ANOTHER form" from His real spiritual body (Mark 16:12).  And He appeared behind closed doors to his Apostles in the same body with which He was crucified (John 20:19-29).

God be with you,

Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5535.0.html

Could it be that Christ's physical body was transformed into a spiritual body upon resurrection? Is that not what Paul speaks of happening to those alive at the Lord's return? So why not the same with the dead?

Co 15:51  Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Here is what I believe to be the qualifier; "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed."
 
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

His Peace to you,

Joe


PS Here is the full verse Ray mentioned (Mark 16:12)

Mar 16:12  After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 03:57:57 PM by hillsbororiver »
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jerreye

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2007, 08:59:17 AM »

Quote
Could it be that Christ's physical body was transformed into a spiritual body upon resurrection? Is that not what Paul speaks of happening to those alive at the Lord's return? So why not the same with the dead?

Hi, perhaps I'm misreading you, but doesn't it say that "corruption does NOT INHERIT incorruption"? This to me is saying that our natural body does not inherit the spiritual body, but instead, we are changed FROM corruption (flesh and blood) INTO an incorruptible spiritual body.

I apologize if I read you incorrectly :)
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2007, 09:45:16 AM »

Quote
Could it be that Christ's physical body was transformed into a spiritual body upon resurrection? Is that not what Paul speaks of happening to those alive at the Lord's return? So why not the same with the dead?

Hi, perhaps I'm misreading you, but doesn't it say that "corruption does NOT INHERIT incorruption"? This to me is saying that our natural body does not inherit the spiritual body, but instead, we are changed FROM corruption (flesh and blood) INTO an incorruptible spiritual body.

I apologize if I read you incorrectly :)

Hi jerreye,

No need for an apology but perhaps the use of the word "transformed" is what you are questioning, are you seeing this word as a sort of metamorphosis like a catapillar changing into a butterfly?

That was not my thought or intention at all, here are all the definitions, I was thinking #'s 2 & 3, I believe you were thinking # 1;


 trans·form

–verb (used with object)

1. to change in form, appearance, or structure; metamorphose. 
2. to change in condition, nature, or character; convert. 
3. to change into another substance; transmute.

 
—Synonyms  transfigure. Transform, convert mean to change one thing into another. Transform suggests changing from one form, appearance, structure, or type to another:

Phi 3:21  Who shall change3345 our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 G3345
μετασχηματίζω
metaschēmatizō
met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo
From G3326 and a derivative of G4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively to apply (by accommodation): - transfer, transform (self).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2007, 10:16:35 AM »

I had another thought on this subject and it will be the last (from me) as it is doubtful anyone is going to change their opinion on this one way or the other until the "change" actually happens or we get indisputable confirmation through some future discovery of appropriate verses.   ;)

Mat 17:2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Was the natural, flesh and blood body of Jesus prostrated on the ground as this tranfiguration took place, or was the natural "changed" into the spiritual temporarily?

What will happen to the bodies of those alive at His return and they are changed, will their former bodies crumble to the earth as they take possession of their new bodies or will the old flesh and blood corruptable be "changed" into the incorruptable?

I see this like changing sand into glass, the fire applied to the sand changes it forever, the process cannot be reversed, unlike water which this same fire can change to steam or water vapor but potentially it can and does condense back into water once again.

OK, enough of this for now!  :D

His Peace to you,

Joe

 
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pylady

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Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2007, 10:15:21 PM »

All this talk about changing and/or transforming, physical or spiritual bodies makes me think of the scripture that says ALL is of God.  The specks of dust our physical bodies will become, and the spiritual bodies He will someday give us are both of God.  Exactly how He will do it we don't yet know.  But scientist do know that matter can be changed to energy, and energy to matter, and in the subatomic world a particle is sometimes matter and sometimes energy.  These discoveries of scientist are teaching us something about our God.   I don't know the relationship of energy to spirit, but it does make me think!

May He give us a spirit of understanding.

                  Cindy  :)


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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Only the elect are raised spiritual
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2007, 01:13:19 AM »

Good points to ponder Cindy!

God is Spirit. Just what Spirit is I do not think we have even approached comprehending yet.

God is the creator of Matter, Energy, Space and Time from His Spirit! He is the Source of all! This is pretty amazing!

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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