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[Gregor]

Greetings,
Lately I've been pondering what the difference is between just living in the spirit, and walking in the spirit. I really love the story of Peter walking on the water. One thing that I recently realized is that even after Peter took his eyes off Jesus and began to sink, and after Jesus reached out to save him, Peter still had to walk again back to the boat. What this means to me is that even when I've taken my focus off Jesus, cried out to him and he picks me up, I still need to keep walking (with Him) until I'm out of danger. I can't afford to just live. Where the spirit leads, I must follow. What would have happened if Peter had decided to stop walking, and Jesus continued on into the boat alone? Peter assuredly would have sunk again, missed the boat so-to-speak. Perhaps this is a lesson in perserverence? Maybe it relates to the parable of talents? Any thoughts?
G.

[sonofone]

Hey Gregor I think I know what you mean,but my brain is getting in the way a little bit. If all you are saying is that we have to keep walking with Jesus even after we have fallen who can deny this.If you mean to say more and I missed it in your post blame it on ,my brain.

[Gregor]

Greetings sonofone, and thanks for the reply.
I don't think it's your brain, but rather mine. I really appreciate your input in these threads. I feel that you have a genuine honest spirit about you. You ask good questions that make for some really interesting discussions.

I guess I'm looking for some feedback on what it means to "walk" in the spirit as opposed to just "live" in the spirit. Peter was just an example of one of the things it means to me. I think it could also mean the same as:

James 2:14-20, NKJV "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble. But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

If someone only "lives" in the spirit, but doesn't learn to walk, are they as good as dead-in-the-water? It appears so. If our faith is dead, then we cannot please God. I feel sometimes as though I'm eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I know evil (all too well ). I'm trying to know good. If I'm living in the spirit too much and not really walking in the spirit, what's the difference? Could someone explain it to me? I'm sitting here seeking the truth, looking for answers, but have no real outlet to "walk" in. I feel isolated from the "body," like a ship caught in the doldrums. I think it's my brain that is in the way.

[DuluthGA]

Hi G-man!

My simple response to your inquiry is to include this question into your daily rapport with God:

How may I serve You today?  Or how will You use me today or something similar.

I think the answers you will be given will add to your sense of inclusiveness and give you a place or places to start your walk.

Hope so.  It helps me as even though my days are pretty routine and fairly predictable... this keeps it in my mind freshly that I am to be open in my perceptions for new opportunities in service and growth of all kinds... 

Hope He surprises you REAL GOOD for your own behalf!

I have a feeling you will soon be VERY BUSY!

 

[Gregor]

My simple response to your inquiry is to include this question into your daily rapport with God:

How may I serve You today?  Or something similar.

Thank you. I do believe this is a simple, yet very profound piece of advice. I know just raising my family is more than a huge challenge. Thanks again.
G.

[sonofone]

I think Romans the 8th chapter is a good place to look at Gregor it is where my mind went to when I considered your second post.I hear obedience and following when I consider these verses. It seems that there are only two choices,walk or obey your flesh or carnal nature,or walk or obey the spirit of Jesus Vs 12 -13 says Therefore,brethern,we are debtors,not to the flesh,to live after the flesh.For if if ye live after the flesh,ye shall die: but if ye,through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body,ye shall live.I think that Paul in this chapter was illustrating the difference that Jesus makes in the life of believers in regards to our carnal nature.Through focusing on him we are able to walk after the spirit or obey the spirit while simultaneously mortifying or putting to death the carnal nature. In the larger scope of things I sense a rest as well that Paul is talking about here. Hebrew 4vs 3, 9-11 For we who have believed do enter into rest,as he said or as God has said. There remaineth,therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest,he also hath ceased from his own works,as God did from his.Let us labor,therefore to enter into that rest.The rest my dear friend is the end of works or trying to do what you could not do in and of yourself,the law.Now through Jesus,the spirit we can kill the deeds of the flesh by resting in him.All we have to do is like Peter keep our focus on Jesus by following his lead.Then before you realize it your'e knocking down walls,and leaping over buildings,heck even walking on water!The best part is we are doing all of this while resting.The hard part has already been done.We just follow Jesus lead,which I guess one could argue is easier said than done.But I heard Jesus say Take my yolk upon you and learn of me,for I am meek and lowly in heart,and you shall find REST unto your souls.For my yolk is easy and my burden is light! Matthew 11 29-30What do you think Brother.

[Kat]

Hi Gregor,

Lately I've been pondering what the difference is between just living in the spirit, and walking in the spirit.

Living and walking in the spirit, that is what I think of as bearing the fruit of the spirit.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
v. 23  gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

When the Holy Spirit is indwelling it will lead us to resist the pulls of the flesh and in so doing the fruits of the spirit become apparent in the way we live our lives.

Titus 3:14  And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.

Luke 6:43  "For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
v. 44  For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
v. 45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

It is the Holy Spirit which will guide us by the grace of God (divine influence on the heart) to serve and obey Him.

John 16:13  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

So living and walking in the spirit, is bearing the fruit of good works, by the way we think, how we treat others.  But most importantly knowing that God is in control of all things and will do the works He so desire in us.

Eph 3:20  Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,

Eph 1:11  in whom also we have been chosen to an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gregor]

Greetings Sonofone and Kat,

Sonofone,
I like what you've presented. Most of my questions here have originated from Rom.7 & 8. The 'rest' you speak of sounds more like living in the spirit, but walking in the spirit sounds more like the way we labour to enter that rest? To me, being yoked to Jesus implies working in the field and the (light) burden being the cart full of the harvested crop - unlike the heavy plow needed to till the ground. I'm sure the yoked animals didn't run, but probably did a lot of walking together. Spiritually paints a nice picture

Kat,
Thanks for the reply. From your response, it sounds like you make no distinction between the two - both mean bearing the fruit of the spirit. I believe the two are symbiotic, but I just have a nagging feeling that God is trying to show me something more in the distinction. Something that did strike me was the phrase you used, "When the Holy Spirit is indwelling it will lead us to resist the pulls of the flesh and in so doing the fruits of the spirit become apparent in the way we live our lives." - apparent to me, to others. Perhaps this relates to the way we reap the harvest: Working together with Jesus, being a light to the world, and persevering till the job's done. It's all coming together.

Rev.12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Wow, there's a really cool relationship developing here (pun intended  ).
Thanks again all.
Your Brother in Christ,
G.

[DuluthGA]

Well then G, there's always this:

Rev 20: 4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

If it weren't for being responsible for my father now, I would long for this honor....  and you?

Best to keep to family matters for the moment too?  I pray for your young, growing family, may God bless.

Whatever He gives us, dear brother in Christ, we do.

 

[sonofone]

Gregor,in regards to the yolk that Jesus spoke of have you considered Acts 15 vs 10 in particular.There  were certain men,of the sect of the Pharisees who tested the liberty of the Gentile Christians supposing that they should have to keep the law of Moses.Peter in vs 10 says Now therefore,why put God to the test,to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples,which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? This yoke refers to the law and mans vain attempt to keep it. The contrast is the burden of the Pharisee Jesus spoke of in Matthew 23 vs 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne,and lay them on men's shoulders.This he said in regards to there works.vs 3 he says do not after there works.Jesus yolk is the complete opposite.He makes it doable through him,or his spirit.

[rocky]

Living and walking in the spirit, that is what I think of as bearing the fruit of the spirit.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
v. 23  gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

When the Holy Spirit is indwelling it will lead us to resist the pulls of the flesh and in so doing the fruits of the spirit become apparent in the way we live our lives.

Titus 3:14  And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.

Luke 6:43  "For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
v. 44  For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
v. 45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

It is the Holy Spirit which will guide us by the grace of God (divine influence on the heart) to serve and obey Him.

John 16:13  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

So living and walking in the spirit, is bearing the fruit of good works, by the way we think, how we treat others.  But most importantly knowing that God is in control of all things and will do the works He so desire in us.

Eph 3:20  Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,

Eph 1:11  in whom also we have been chosen to an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

What i don't understand is how come atheists, non believers, etc. can bear fruits of the spirit.  I know many people who are exhibit love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

So how can these good traits come from a corrupt heart??  We are told that we will know the heart/tree by the fruits. 

44  For every tree is known by its own fruit.


 

[chuckt]

What i don't understand is how come atheists, non believers, etc. can bear fruits of the spirit.  I know many people who are exhibit love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

So how can these good traits come from a corrupt heart??  We are told that we will know the heart/tree by the fruits. 

44  For every tree is known by its own fruit.

ive thought about this same thing!! look forward to some responses!!
chuckt

[Kat]

What I understand about humanity, is that God has given us all to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  This is the experiences of life that we all have, before we receive His Spirit.  We have all these experiences to learn about life, the good and the bad. 
We all are capable of doing some good, but we usually have ulterior carnal motives, such as if I'm nice they will be nice back to me or if I buy her/him a expensive gift she/he will give me something big in return.  That's our human nature to act like that.  We do good deeds, but in the back of our minds it's to get something in return.

The difference I see in having the fruit of God's Spirit, is we do what we do to please God.  That becomes our main objective.  The Holy Spirit guides our thoughts and actions, not the carnal mind.  The benefits are still there (getting something in return), but that is no longer the objective.

Well that's the way I see it, I hope it helped 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[chuckt]

What I understand about humanity, is that God has given us all to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  This is the experiences of life that we all have, before we receive His Spirit.  We have all these experiences to learn about life, the good and the bad. 
We all are capable of doing some good, but we usually have ulterior carnal motives, such as if I'm nice they will be nice back to me or if I buy her/him a expensive gift she/he will give me something big in return.  That's our human nature to act like that.  We do good deeds, but in the back of our minds it's to get something in return.

The difference I see in having the fruit of God's Spirit, is we do what we do to please God.  That becomes our main objective.  The Holy Spirit guides our thoughts and actions, not the carnal mind.  The benefits are still there (getting something in return), but that is no longer the objective.

Well that's the way I see it, I hope it helped 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

interesting ..thanks.

this is tuff for me because it seems that when ""I""  try and do things to please God it still seems motivated by "carnality"

i seem to look back and see things that God does thru me that i didnt know about at the time that means the most or bares fruit.

for me  if I try and walk in love i fail but when i die to self so to speak Christ's LOVE seems to automatically chine thru.

but then yesterday i got real frustrated and upset at work and those old carnal feeling started rising up, but when i steped back and went out of my way to
be of help to others all seemed to fall in place?? how much is me and how much is CHRIST???

its seems a conundrum

its wacky

God bless
chuckt

[Kat]

Hi chuckt,

We do not become spiritually mature at first.  We start out as babes and have to grow up, learning our lessons along the way, to become like Christ.

1Peter 2:2  Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation--

It's a process 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rocky]

What amazes me is when a non believer will stay up all night with a friend who is contemplating suicide and just hold them, and protect them, and care for them;

when a stranger steps in front of a car to save a person they don't even know,

when a stranger dives into icy waters to save a drowning person,

when a mom who has lost her child from cancer and is in unbelievable pain will be comforted, be held, loved, brought food for dinners; etc.,

when a person carries groceries for an old woman struggling to get out of the grocery store.  

are these acts of "tree of knowledge of good and evil??, or agape love??


some of the struggles i am going through in understanding God's love, and the work of the spirit??  

And where is the gifts of the spirit??  do we really see prophecies that are true??  Are healings true??  Tongues has been refuted by Ray as false??  Why are there no more books of the bible being written??  

We call things we do as acts of the spirit??  how do we really know??  

Sorry for rambling, like i said some personal questions/struggles i go through.

[chuckt]

Hi chuckt,

We do not become spiritually mature at first.  We start out as babes and have to grow up, learning our lessons along the way, to become like Christ.

1Peter 2:2  Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation--

It's a process 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

hi kat

yes i understand that, ive been at it a long time.

i guess what im saying is :

when my mind is set on the things above, fruit is automatically generated, ie: love joy peace patience..etc.

when my mind is set on things below i get frustrated. the more i grow, or should i say, the more Christ is formed in me the more my mind is
on things above, yet at times i think we need to be  shown we still dwell in a fleshly tabernacle as not to be puffed up.


does that make sense?

peace
chuckt

[chuckt]

What amazes me is when a non believer will stay up all night with a friend who is contemplating suicide and just hold them, and protect them, and care for them;

when a stranger steps in front of a car to save a person they don't even know,

when a stranger dives into icy waters to save a drowning person,

when a mom who has lost her child from cancer and is in unbelievable pain will be comforted, be held, loved, brought food for dinners; etc.,

when a person carries groceries for an old woman struggling to get out of the grocery store.  

are these acts of "tree of knowledge of good and evil??, or agape love??


some of the struggles i am going through in understanding God's love, and the work of the spirit??  

And where is the gifts of the spirit??  do we really see prophecies that are true??  Are healings true??  Tongues has been refuted by Ray as false??  Why are there no more books of the bible being written??  

We call things we do as acts of the spirit??  how do we really know??  

Sorry for rambling, like i said some personal questions/struggles i go through.

i personally think gods love knows no bounds and he works thru all men for all are in and by and thru him.

these so called non beleivers might not just be ""orthodox"  i personally beleive even the atheist in the deep down rescess
of his mind beleives in a God just not as portrayed by "orthodox" and so they be not verbal about it.

either way Christ gets all the glory....as well he should

peace

euty

[Deborah-Leigh]

Some know what God wants and they obey. That's walking the walk and not just talking the talk.

Some know what Gods wants and they say they will obey and don't/can't.

We are all sustained by His Spirit but few live in His Image. Many are yet dead in their sins.

Few are alive in His Spirit and will find that their names are written in the Book of Life.

As I see this, we are not all alive spiritually yet. We are not all living in obedience to His way that took up His own cross and laid down His life.

We need His power and Spirit to be able to obey and follow Him. We only have the conception in us of His Spirit. So for me, there are very few who are walking and all of the rest of us are not even born again yet!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[DuluthGA]

So many interesting thoughts from all of you!

Kat, "it's a process" (sure is!) thanks for giving us 1Pet 2:2... add to this also:

Isaiah 28: 9   Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.  Kewl, ey?  Answers:  Those whom He is putting through the process, hmmm?  Those that no longer need the milk but are able to chew a little meat (a mature action...) walk the walk, hmmm?  GOOD ONE! HA!

Chuck... "it's wacky, it's a conundrum..."  And I'm with you!  And... it's a paradox and a dichotomy!

Paradox:  [I'll pick definition #3 in an online dictionary]:  one (as a person, situation, or action) having seemingly contradictory qualities or phases.

Dichotomy: [Picking definition #4 of an online dictionary]: something with seemingly contradictory qualities.

I personally consider God dichotomous and paradoxal for several reasons.  Just a few:  He is obviously has both male and female in "Him" yet He apparently per His Word emphasizes only the [male] father/sonship part. Also, He is Spirit yet comes down to man's level in His Word relating that He has rather fleshly "emotions".  Finally, He creates us (all) for eventual union with Him, the chosen first, and we really cannot do a good thing without His indwelling spirit, yet we are supposed to try to reach His prize.

THIS IS OUR GOD!!!  HOW CAN WE KNOW HIM??  RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE??  GROW?? 

I love Rocky's comments, sort of like, well why then do atheists perform some phenomenal good acts as fruits of His spirit?

WHO KNOWS?  ONLY GOD!

Eccl 3: 11   He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Chuck is right-on, all for His glory... and ours eventually as well as we are His family and He loves us.... ALL, each one, ALL.

Isaiah 43: 7b   I created them to bring glory to me. I formed them and made them."

I just can't put it all together in my head.  To me, God is somewhere in like the 16th dimension... so I kind of wonder about Him a lot in my head.... and trust Him a lot.

I think of things like.... well when all is said and done.... when God is all in all....

how can there be the fruits of the spirts, how can there be love and peace, etc., when there no longer is any evil or contrast??  I DON'T KNOW! 

But I trust there WILL BE some kind of all-enduring spiritual GOODNESS that TRULY IS GOD, and somehow we will ALL be able to partake.

The best for last, Arcturus:  We need His power and Spirit to be able to obey and follow Him. We only have the conception in us of His Spirit.

Oh happy day to come,
Joy,
Janice