> General Discussions
Jesus Nature?
LittleBear:
--- Quote from: ciy on September 28, 2007, 03:28:53 PM ---
This is the intent of my heart to stay focused on the prize set before me. That prize is the high calling of Jesus Christ. I will not worry with the mark I missed yesterday. I will press on not looking to the right or the left knowing that it is a daily fight and in the end it will be lonely, but the reward will be tremendous to those who perservere to the end.
--- End quote ---
Me too! Christ in You the hope of glory...that is the only way.
Kat:
Hi sonofone,
Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that puts Him in a whole other catergory than we are in. Whereas Adam, though not having a mother, was still created with the same nature as the rest of mankind.
Here are a couple of emails that I thought was was speaking to this same subject.
I got this out of some emails that were tacked on the end of the 'Trinity' article.
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html --------------
Jesus Christ had a physical body and could be seen, whereas God does not have a physical body (God is SPIRIT) and God cannot be seen as He is INVISIBLE.
Jesus does not "consist" of the "substance" of God Who is invisible, but rather Jesus is the VISIBLE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD. God does not bear this visible substance which can be seen, therefore He send His Son in a VISIBLE form that can be seen (and heard).
If the Father were to take to Himself a Form or a Substance then what we would see is CHRIST. Christ IS the express image, form, (or substance if you insist) of God His Father. However, the difference is that when Christ takes on all of the Father's form, image, character, etc., etc., we can see and hear and touch Him with our hands, but we still cannot see, hear or touch our Heavenly Father with our physical hands. Jesus said that when we SEE Him we SEE the Father even though the Father is INVISIBLE! Granted, this is a little higher than theology 101.
http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm#Adam ---------------
[Ray Replies]
Dear Barb:
As with ALL major doctrines, the Christian Church has not a clue as to this subject of "original sin."
The doctrine taught is that Adam and Eve were PERFECT (after all, could God create something that was NOT perfect? Were they not created in God's OWN IMAGE)?
Well, they were "perfect" in the same way that Satan (a liar and a murderer from the very beginning) was perfect -- PERFECT FOR THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH GOD CREATED THEM.
Adam and Eve ALREADY had lust and disobedience in their hearts BEFORE the serpent approached them. Eve LUSTED BEFORE she ever actually ate of the fruit. Small technicality for our Christian friends.
Now then let's read Rom. 5:12 together:
"Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."
Now then, WHERE does that verse say that Adam's "sin was passed on to all in the world?" Was "sin" passed on? NO! "DEATH" was passed on.
Are we condemned because of "ADAM'S SIN?" NO! "...for that ALL have sinned." All have sinned their OWN individual sins, they are not condemned because of Adam's sin, but they did receive "death" from Adam in that "mortality" WAS passed on to the whole human race, because Adam did NOT partake of the "TREE OF LIFE," but rather sinned which brought the penalty God promised of "death."
A better translation helps our understanding:
"Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind on which all sinned..." (Concordant Literal New Testament).
Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..."
They were made sinners by VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVED ADAM'S MORTALITY [DEATH] NOT HIS SIN. We sin because we are mortal [dying]. We have NO SPIRITUAL STRENGTH to combat our carnal, sinning, DYING, FLESH. Hence all sin because THEY ARE MORTAL. Adam sinned because HE WAS MORTAL. "It is appointed unto ALL men once to die"
But there are TWO DEATHS -- spiritual and physical. Jesus Christ said: "Let the DEAD bury the DEAD." Two kinds of "dead" in ONE VERSE. The SPIRITUALLY DEAD, who bury the PHYSICALLY DEAD!
Hope that helps your understanding a little better. One more point: Any human being from any generation in the history of the human race, if put in the garden under the same conditions as Adam, would have ALSO SINNED THE SAME WAY. Adam sinned not because he could have chosen NOT TO SIN, but because he was made too spiritually weak to avoid or conquer sin. God MADE Adam subject to VANITY and CORRUPTION (and "not willingly"). See Romans 8:18-23).
God be with you,
Ray
sonofone:
I appreciate all the info and feedback you all are giving.Kat when reading Rays perspective on Adam that you provided,it raises one fundamental question.Is Ray saying that Adam was created just like us? That he was created with this unstoppable carnal nature that you and I have,which would have given him no chance at not sinning?
Kat:
sonofone, why do you think that Adam was not created just like us, and thus giving him no chance at not sinning?
Rom 11:32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that He might have mercy upon all.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
sonofone:
Thanks for the question Kat. It has always been my understanding that Adam and Eve were created sinless. That is not the same as being perfect,just had not sinned therefore no sin nature. I have always believed that sin was introduced into the world by Adam's disobedience to God's command. I was under the impression that the carnal nature of man was activated once they ate of the fruit. I thought that's what God meant when he said that there eyes were opened.I thought it was this sin that separated them from God. Before this happened they were in fellowship with God,afterwards they were not.I could go on but I think you get where I am coming from.By the way am I to take by your question that Ray teaches the opposite?
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