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Great Question
Deborah-Leigh:
What I find interesting Kat is that repentance is not the removal of the sin.
A person may repent of having lived a sinful life in the last breath of their life and still have to face the lake of fire. Just like a person can accept Christ and falsely believe they are saved by a sinners prayer.
We have to obey Christ and that is the fruit of repentance I believe.
As Ray notes : Ray http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html
So there are four things that happen with sin:
1. Committed
2. Remitted
3. Repented
4. Removed
From the excerpt on the Kiss of Death teaching you posted Kat, I find it interesting to compare between Peter and Judas. Peter denied knowing Jesus. Judas used his knowledge of Jesus to betray Him. Is not Christiandom doing the same thing as Judas? I think it is. As for Peter, he was scared, humbled, cried bitterly and then was strengthened and regenerated by the Spirit of Christ. This same encounter with the Spirit of Christ caused much the same thing to happen in the lives of Job, Isaiah Peter and Saul.
Only the Spirit of Christ can defeat the Beast. Perhaps this is the meaning of John 16:33 I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration: but be of good cheer, take courage: be confident, certain,undaunted! For I have overcome the world.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
CEO:
I can see your insight and as usual from you it is strong.
Regarding Judas and the first resurrection my understanding is Judas did not receive the holy spirit in his life. I do not think Judas was with the disciples when Jesus breathed on them the holy spirit. I do not think Judas was at pentecost when the holy spirit came down as fire from the heavens. Without the holy spirit we cannot be begotten or born again into the first resurrection.
Askseeknock
Charles
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you for adding that light to this discussion and building us all up in the Truth and Knowledge of Christ and His Spirit.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: CEO on October 01, 2007, 12:26:09 PM --- I can see your insight and as usual from you it is strong.
Regarding Judas and the first resurrection my understanding is Judas did not receive the holy spirit in his life. I do not think Judas was with the disciples when Jesus breathed on them the holy spirit. I do not think Judas was at pentecost when the holy spirit came down as fire from the heavens. Without the holy spirit we cannot be begotten or born again into the first resurrection.
Askseeknock
Charles
--- End quote ---
Hello Charles,
I has been a while. All I can say is wow. How disappointing for anyone, including Judas and us who were not at that meeting where the Christ "breathed on them the Holy Spirit." Perhaps since we weren't there just as Judas was not there we also cannot "be born again into the first resurrection." I surely hope that you don't believe that. I don't
I see no real proof but only your opinion that Judas did not receive the Holy Spirit. I do not disagree that he might not have received it. I just see no proof that he didn't
Here is another piece of what I might consider more damaging evidence to consider:
Joh 17:10 And Mine all are Thine, and Thine Mine. And I have been glorified in them."
Joh 17:11 And no longer am I in the world, and they are in the world, and I to Thee am coming. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, in which Thou hast given them to Me, that they may be one, according as We are."
Joh 17:12 When I was with them in the world, I kept those whom Thou hast given Me in Thy name, and I guard them, and not one of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the scripture may be fulfilled."
The judges in this case have still not convinced me that Judas will not be one one those in the "first" resurrection. He very well might not be. The judges and we also don't know for sure whether we will be so graced in His mercy.
Well, I guess I have seen the discussion, even added some damaging evidence of my own and am not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the judges are right. Even so, I still believe it is not their call to begin with.
be blessed
feat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Harryfeat
I find it stange that you omit the following scripture in your sumation that says you find no proof that Judas did not recieve the Holy Spirit. Here is the proof. Here is Jesus Christ speaking to the Father....
John 17 : 12 While I was with them I kept and preserved them in Your Name, in the knowledge and worship of You. THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME I guarded ( Did not Jesus pray for Peter adivsing him that Satan desired to sift him like wheat but that He Jesus Had prayed for Peter? ) and protected (When Satan entered Judas did Jesus protect him? No. He bid him to do quickly what he had to do.) and not one of THEM has perished or is lost EXCEPT THE SON OF PERDITION JUDAS ISCARIOT - the one who is now doomed to destruction, destined to be lost, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
Jesus said it. It is true. Those who God gives, drags to Christ, are those God selects for Christ to conform to His image by and through His Spirit. Those who are NOT dragged or given to Christ BY GOD, (not given by the preacher, the Priest, an eleven second sinners prayer or the representitive of Harlot Babylon,) but given by God...are those for whom Jesus prayed.
I have no reason to believe that Judas will not have to face the LOF White Throne judgment to be purified and sanctified and eventually saved. I bleive the proof of this is in the statements recorded for us in the word of God and spoken to God by Christ Himself.
Peace be to you
Arcturus
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