> General Discussions
Is this judgeing?
Kat:
Hi Rocky,
--- Quote ---Please tell me how Jesus could be a "son" before being tested in the wilderness, and before proving his faith.
--- End quote ---
I don't think Jesus had to prove anything to be considered the Son of God, He was the Son of the Most High by being born of the Holy Spirit. He always Referred to God as His Father, while on earth, even as a child He referred to God as His Father.
Luke 2:49 And He said to them, Why did you look for Me? Do you not know that I must be about My Father's business?
John 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Moses did not give you that bread from Heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from Heaven.
Mat 12:50 For whoever shall do the will of My Father in Heaven, the same is My brother and sister and mother.
--- Quote ---Please tell me how Paul could address carnal Christians as bretheren, despite being carnal.
--- End quote ---
Col 1:23 .....of which I, Paul, became a minister,
v. 24 who now rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf, and I fill up the things lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh, on behalf of His body, which is the church;
v. 25 of which I became a minister, according to the administration of God given to me for you, to fulfill the Word of God;
He wrote those letters to the people that He and the other Apostles had taught the truth and were continuing to minister to them. These were those scattered groups of brethren he was ministering to by sending them these letters, and I would think there were babes that were yet carnal in these groups.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
But in this scripture, I think Paul is asking a sarcastic question, because this is not what they should be doing.
A few scriptures down he ask another question, saying they should be living right if the Holy Spirit is indwelling or God will deal with them.
1Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
v. 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.
Just the way I see this in the scripture.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
Hello Kat,
I wanted to thank you for what you posted.
To rocky;
I wanted to be honost and say that what you are telling me, is not going well with the spirit inside me.
I just can't see how those who preach a Christ who will eternaly torture most of His creation are my 'brothers and sisters.' This isn't even the Christ of the gospel, and as kat said, i felt that those whom paul was calling bretheren in the scriptures were for the called AND chosen and not decieved carnal minded christians.
I just don't know how you would explain Christ calling the jews that believed on him, OF THE DEVIL. I mean.. isn't that alittle judgemental of Jesus if they are His brothers and sisters?
I might be wrong for saying this, and if i am then somebody let me know, but i feel that those who preach this get rich burn the unbelievers god of christendom are of the devil and speak lies...
I'm not trying to say i'm better then them, i know its because of God and His mercy, but does that mean i should lie and pertended as though they are my brother and sisters when they certainly don't believe in the same Jesus that i do?
I just don't understand.. you can't have a Christ that is gonna BURN EVERYONE and a Christ that is gonna SAVE EVERYONE. Which Jesus do you follow? Who follows that Jesus? Are not those that follow the Jesus CHrist you do, which is hopefully the one whom died to show the his love for all his creation and whom will one day save all them, are they not your brothers and sisters and not these other people who worship this other god made up in there own minds?
God forgive me if i am deeply mistaken, a blind man cannot see his own steps, so if i am misguided here then Lord show me the light.
God bless ,
Alex
rocky:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on October 06, 2007, 09:09:17 PM ---Hello Kat,
I wanted to thank you for what you posted.
To rocky;
I wanted to be honost and say that what you are telling me, is not going well with the spirit inside me.
I just can't see how those who preach a Christ who will eternaly torture most of His creation are my 'brothers and sisters.' This isn't even the Christ of the gospel, and as kat said, i felt that those whom paul was calling bretheren in the scriptures were for the called AND chosen and not decieved carnal minded christians.
I just don't know how you would explain Christ calling the jews that believed on him, OF THE DEVIL. I mean.. isn't that alittle judgemental of Jesus if they are His brothers and sisters?
I might be wrong for saying this, and if i am then somebody let me know, but i feel that those who preach this get rich burn the unbelievers god of christendom are of the devil and speak lies...
I'm not trying to say i'm better then them, i know its because of God and His mercy, but does that mean i should lie and pertended as though they are my brother and sisters when they certainly don't believe in the same Jesus that i do?
I just don't understand.. you can't have a Christ that is gonna BURN EVERYONE and a Christ that is gonna SAVE EVERYONE. Which Jesus do you follow? Who follows that Jesus? Are not those that follow the Jesus CHrist you do, which is hopefully the one whom died to show the his love for all his creation and whom will one day save all them, are they not your brothers and sisters and not these other people who worship this other god made up in there own minds?
God forgive me if i am deeply mistaken, a blind man cannot see his own steps, so if i am misguided here then Lord show me the light.
God bless ,
Alex
--- End quote ---
Hi Alex, thank you for your honesty, and I definitely could be wrong; You say what I am saying doesn't sit well with your spirit, and that is fine; hopefully you can go back and look at what I said, which was approx. 90 percent quoted scripture, but 10 percent my words. But even yet, the spirit has to quicken the scriptures in each of us.
Well, if you say that only those who believe in UR are your brothers, that's OK, but I wouldn't even be surprised then if it is broken down to "but only those who believe and teach ........, and not like other UR teachers who teach..........
Sounds like a denomination, or easily could become one
Thank you for this thread, and through it you have given me some things to take to the Lord too.
One thing that has really struck me today, is the children of the devil, the proud, the pharisees etc, those "cut off", although our enemies,
are beloved for the father's sakes. for HIS GLORY.
and through them, we have received mercy,
and through our mercy, they too will receive mercy.
Oh the awesomeness of HIS plan. All for his GlORY
(Rom 11:28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen.
rocky:
--- Quote from: Kat on October 06, 2007, 07:20:59 PM ---
Hi Rocky,
--- Quote ---Please tell me how Jesus could be a "son" before being tested in the wilderness, and before proving his faith.
--- End quote ---
I don't think Jesus had to prove anything to be considered the Son of God, He was the Son of the Most High by being born of the Holy Spirit. He always Referred to God as His Father, while on earth, even as a child He referred to God as His Father.
Luke 2:49 And He said to them, Why did you look for Me? Do you not know that I must be about My Father's business?
John 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Moses did not give you that bread from Heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from Heaven.
Mat 12:50 For whoever shall do the will of My Father in Heaven, the same is My brother and sister and mother.
--- Quote ---Please tell me how Paul could address carnal Christians as bretheren, despite being carnal.
--- End quote ---
Col 1:23 .....of which I, Paul, became a minister,
v. 24 who now rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf, and I fill up the things lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh, on behalf of His body, which is the church;
v. 25 of which I became a minister, according to the administration of God given to me for you, to fulfill the Word of God;
He wrote those letters to the people that He and the other Apostles had taught the truth and were continuing to minister to them. These were those scattered groups of brethren he was ministering to by sending them these letters, and I would think there were babes that were yet carnal in these groups.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
But in this scripture, I think Paul is asking a sarcastic question, because this is not what they should be doing.
A few scriptures down he ask another question, saying they should be living right if the Holy Spirit is indwelling or God will deal with them.
1Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
v. 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.
Just the way I see this in the scripture.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat, i personally think there is some interesting parallels with the baptism of Jesus in the jordan, the spirit coming upon him, named "beloved son", and then sent out into the wilderness.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Seems there is spiritual parallel for us:
1. baptized into Christ's death via faith:
our baptism, (representative of Christ's baptism in the jordan)
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
then receiving of the spirit
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
(Gal 3:26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
2. My beloved son status given to us, through faith and the spirit
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
3. led out to the wilderness, as son's; for the trying of our faith. Because we are sons, then chastisement (our wilderness journey). In this journey, learn obedience, and by God's grace stay faithul, and dont' fall back to works of the law.
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Seems to me a great parrallel.
1.Jesus baptized, given son status, then tried in the wilderness
2. Those chosen, baptized into Christ's death via faith, given son status, then led into wilderness for chastisement and trying of our faith.
those who stay faithful to the end will be saved.
I see the "son"ship being given before fully matured in the wilderness. are not these "sons" not our brothers?
lilitalienboi16:
Hell Rocky, thanks again for your reply.
I have nothing against the scriptures, and they are always true to me. Lord have mercy, i pray they are!
However, i noticed that those who have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are the sons and daughters of God. How can those who are of there father the devil have the spirit of Christ in them?
Also, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.
Does being beloved for the fathers sake = our brother and sisters? Why is the FATHERS SAKE? Why not OUR Sake or CHRIST SAKE? Why not, they are 'sons for the fathers sake?' Why the use of the word BELOVED?
I just don't know yet if i can say that simply because they are beloved for the fathers sake, that those jews that believe on him that Christ calls of the devil, are our brothers in Christ. Remmber these people BELIEVE ON CHRIST.
This is why this is not so black and white to me, these are not just athiest or agnostics, these are those that BELIEVE ON HIM! Is this not haveing FAITH IN CHRIST? Yet they are OF THE DEVIL! How can that be? Furthermore, hwo could they be brothers and sisters to us?
I certainly don't think this is creating a new denomination, there is already a unity of spirit that we must strive to maintain as paul contends. I am in no way advocating a new denomination here of any sort, God forbid, we belong to HIS BODY, HIS CHURCH! There is no need for ANY of that, however does that mean that we call those who are of the devil, our brothers and sisters? How do we know who is of the devil? Our brothers and sisters are those who do the commandments of God, can i even say that i do those? I break them all the time.. where do i fall in all this?
SO many questions.. so much confusion...
Thanks for the intersting discussion! I am learning though confusion and questions are part of that long process.
God bless,
Alex
I c
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