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[Gregor]

Greetings,

LOF Part 1 types (as in Adam corresponding with Christ, Rom. 5:12-21)

So what does that make Eve a type of, and what signifigance is there in that she was deceived?
Here's what I've found, to get the conversation going, but I'll leave it up to you to look up and read the scripture references and then make your comments.

Gen. 2:18-25
v.18 a helper
v.21 deep sleep, side was opened
v.22 rib from man made into woman, presented to man
v.23 woman taken out of man
v.24 man leaves father and mother, two become one
v.25 both naked, unashamed

Eph.5:30-32 Christ and the Church
Jn. 14:16 a helper
Jn.19:33,34 Jesus was already dead, side pierced, opened and out came blood and water.
Blood: Lev.17:11; Jn. 6:63
Water: Eph. 5:25-27; Titus 3:5,6
Additional references: Jn.3:5-7,13-17; 2Cor.11:2,3; Acts 22:16; Rom.10:8-11; Rev.19:7-9; Jn.17:11

I look forward to hearing your thoughts
G.

[sonofone]

Thanks for starting a new post G,this helps to keep issues separate. I promise to post a response to this question once I get back from my doctors appointment.

[sonofone]

I can't go as deep as you may be looking for G,but I will give you what I have. When I heard this question I thought about your post where you mentioned equal liberty,prior to the sin,or transgression.Gen 3 vs 16thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee. Galatians 3vs 28there is nether male or female for you all are the sons of God by faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to the fall I believe it was the same. If they had not sinned than Jesus would have been their head as he is the church's head and there would not have been any need for Adam to have the rule over her.,God set up a chain of command.For the purpose of order. After the fall God put us in positions,Husband head of the wife.Eve sinning without Adam would have brought judgement on Eve only when Adam followed judgement fell on all.Since he was the head then everything gets referred back to Adam It is the cost for being the Boss.

[lilitalienboi16]

Greetings,

LOF Part 1 types (as in Adam corresponding with Christ, Rom. 5:12-21)

So what does that make Eve a type of, and what signifigance is there in that she was deceived?
Here's what I've found, to get the conversation going, but I'll leave it up to you to look up and read the scripture references and then make your comments.

Gen. 2:18-25
v.18 a helper
v.21 deep sleep, side was opened
v.22 rib from man made into woman, presented to man
v.23 woman taken out of man
v.24 man leaves father and mother, two become one
v.25 both naked, unashamed

Eph.5:30-32 Christ and the Church
Jn. 14:16 a helper
Jn.19:33,34 Jesus was already dead, side pierced, opened and out came blood and water.
Blood: Lev.17:11; Jn. 6:63
Water: Eph. 5:25-27; Titus 3:5,6
Additional references: Jn.3:5-7,13-17; 2Cor.11:2,3; Acts 22:16; Rom.10:8-11; Rev.19:7-9; Jn.17:11

I look forward to hearing your thoughts
G.

THis is an article i wrote a WHILE back.

Begin article;

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
With that in mind let us continue;

Gen 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

What we are being told here is that as humanity [eve] came out of Christ [adam], so did Christ come out from the Father;

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Now many of you are probably wondering where i got 'humanity' out of adam and eve, well let me show you;

Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

What are we told about the 'eve,' or 'all living things?'

Genesis 3:16 Thy desire shall be to [properly translated AGAINST] thy husband and he shall rule over thee"

Now many see this as teaching that Man is to rule over women, but how did the apostle paul see this?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Ephesians 5:30-32 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Adam is the figure of Christ, He is the visible, making the invisible clearly seen. Eve represents humanity, and all of us, likewise 'the church.' This shows how the church, and all humanity will be ruled over by 'Christ.'

Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

We are also told that this 'women' the 'mother of all living' [eve] is naturaly against her 'husband' or 'man'[adam]. What does this reveal to us? It shows us that all of humanity [eve] is naturaly AGAINST God [ adam the fire of Christ to come], by the very sinful nature he was created in.

Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity [Deep seated hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So understanding that Adam is the figure of Christ, and Eve represents all humanity, we can understand Eve is 'bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh' for adam, so is all humanity for Christ, we all came out of Christ, and we all are 'in Christ.'

Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Colossians 1:17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist

Colossians 1:20 "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Romans 11:36 "For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Talking to pagan Athenians, Paul make this amazing statement:

Act 17:28 For in him[God, through Christ] we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring
Now we are coming to the point and reason i am writting to you and i hope you recieve it all, keeping in mind what has been said;

1 Timothy 2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

What is really being said here? Isn't the fact that adam wasn't decieved, but eve was, make adams sin far worse then eve's because he willingly partook of that fruit when he was not decieved?

The point being made here is NOT that adam's sin was far worse, the point is that Adam, willingly partook of the FRUIT OF DEATH, so that he would NOT be SEPERATED from Eve.

Likewise, Christ died for HUMANITY, so Humanity would NOT be seperated from Him.

Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
What is the ultimate point of understanding that Adam willingly died with eve, so to not be seperated from her, what is the point of seeing this as a shadow of Christ dieng for the 'mother of ALL LIVING?' It is to see that;

1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Feel free to discuss.


PS THIS WAS AN ARTICLE I WROTE A WHILE BACK, SOME THINGS MAY BE INACCURATE DUE TO MY LACK OF UNDERSTANDING BEFORE. IS ANYTHING IS INNACURATE PLEASE LET ME KNOW, AND I WILL GLADLY CHANGE IT WITH PROPER UNDERSTANDING AND GUIDANCE.

I have one LAST question;

Is CHRIST really the HEAD OF EVERYMAN? EVEN HITLER?


1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Thanks and God bless!

Alex

PPS. Caps for emphasis and to get your attention, not yelling

[Harryfeat]

Hello Alex,

Kudos on an excellent analysis of types, shadows, similitudes and parallels. I enjoyed it and got a lot out of it.

A while back I had been working on the angle of why Eve was deceived and Adam was not.  Is there something in the makeup of Eve that makes her more prone to the heart and therefore requiring some of Adam's control.  What was taken from Adam that would require this? How does Eve's role as mother tie in with these things?  It seems that what is in Eve was once in Adam.  Is it the opposites kinds of things that are attracting  for them to become one?  Just a few things from a different angle that I thought  about.

Is CHRIST really the HEAD OF EVERYMAN? EVEN HITLER?

I thought you answered that question quite nicely with those great verses you posted about the Christ reconciling things to Himself.  However, here are some verses from Ephesians to consider.


Eph 1:20 which he energised in the Christ, when he raised him from among the dead, and seated him at his right hand in the heavenlies,
Eph 1:21 Over-above all principality, authority, and power, and lordship, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the coming one,
Eph 1:22 And did put, all things, in subjection beneath his feet. And gave him to be head over all things unto the assembly,
Eph 1:23 Which, indeed, is his body, the fulness of him who, the all things in all, is for himself filling up.

Be blessed
feat

[skydreamers]

The point being made here is NOT that adam's sin was far worse, the point is that Adam, willingly partook of the FRUIT OF DEATH, so that he would NOT be SEPERATED from Eve.

Likewise, Christ died for HUMANITY, so Humanity would NOT be seperated from Him.

[/color]

Alex, very nice post!  I picked this part out because it really spoke to me.  As you pointed out, Christ came out from the Father and Adam was created by Christ and Eve came out from Adam.  And out from Eve comes the rest of humanity.  Definitely a pattern.  And in this pattern I see something powerful in that Eve was a living part of Adam.  Something in Adam was taken to make Eve, so we could say that a piece is now outside of himself but still connected to him.  But in the union of lovemaking the two become one flesh again.  A husband must have his bride to be complete.  I don't think Adam had any other choice but to die with Eve, at least not from his perspective.  If she were to die without him a piece of himself would be forever lost.  This must have been inconceivable to him, he would have been incomplete! 

In this I see a loving and beautiful parallel in that Adam's necessity to be one with Eve is the same necessity that Christ has to be one with his bride.  He must have us back or he would be forever incomplete.  And that means each and every one of us.  God the Father must view Jesus as a piece of Himself that He simply cannot exist without.  And Jesus views all those he created as pieces of Himself that He simply cannot do without.  It is inconceivable to Jesus that even one soul should be lost or separated from Him forever because He simply would not be complete!

Maybe God could have created entities that were somehow not a part of himself, but being Love and being a personal and intimate God he chose to birth out of himself....what was this like for God?  Who knows, but I think we have a clue in the human birth.   Whatever pain, toil, and struggle is involved in giving birth the joy of sharing life with a child you've had this intimate experience with surpasses any pain.

Interesting thread guys!

Peace and love,
Diana

[sonofone]

I enjoyed your thread Alex,it is nice to see what God can do in the mind of anyone that submitts to him. Types and shadows are throughout the bible and this is a good illustration of that. I personally have a problem with the Adam dying with his wife as not to be separated from her. Not that I can't see the sense of it. Just the romantic part of it that suggest something noble about his decision to disobey God. Love should have caused him to lead her to the tree of life not the tree of death. But that's just me.Good post brother.

[jER]

In Jesus, holiness and humanity become one…

 …and [we] will come to be one with Him - amen!

-jER

[Gregor]

Greetings all,
Great posts and thanks!

Perhaps the "rib" is a type of the Spirit too, (which may make Eve a shadow too?)
shadows (as in the law being a shadow of good things to come, Heb. 10:1)
The natural rib of man is there to give structure to the body, as well as to protect the inner organs/parts ie: the heart/lungs. The Spirit fulfills this function in the "spiritual body."  It is this Spirit that we (Gentiles/carnal man) receive by faith in order to become children in the family of God.  Now I'm getting into faith (a little off topic, but interconnected just like all the systems that make up a body). The just shall live by faith. (Gal.3 explains the promise is through faith, and that the promise came prior to the law, and that it is only promised to one seed - Jesus) Note vs.23-25: But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. This is why it is of utmost importance that we become "one" with Jesus, through faith, by his Spirit.

I tend to agree with sonofone in that I don't like the romanticizing of disobedience. Perhaps there is a further explanation, in that there is a connection between heart and mind. I read in Gen.3:11,12 that God doesn't ask "Why did you eat," he asks "Who told you that you're naked? Have you eaten..." and Adam truthfully replies. So he doesn't even blame Eve, he answers the questions. I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

All in all, I've really enjoyed everyone's input and hope we can all continue to grow.
All the best in Christ,
G.

[lilitalienboi16]

I enjoyed your thread Alex,it is nice to see what God can do in the mind of anyone that submitts to him. Types and shadows are throughout the bible and this is a good illustration of that. I personally have a problem with the Adam dying with his wife as not to be separated from her. Not that I can't see the sense of it. Just the romantic part of it that suggest something noble about his decision to disobey God. Love should have caused him to lead her to the tree of life not the tree of death. But that's just me.Good post brother.

I'm sorry but i disagree.

Adam does not represent Jesus in anyway in how he disobeyed God. Adam is merely a shadow or type of Christ. He ISN'T Christ Himself. There is a difference.

Adam as a shadow and type can represent Christ in one way, but not be Christ in another. Understand?

Obviously He doesn't represent Christ in disobeying God.

Much like how David represents the elect in a way, but not when he says 'Kill all my enemies and make it bloody.' That is most definatly not what God would say through His elect, nor the thoughts and desires they hold inside them.

Theres a difference between being a shadow, and being the actual object. I think you are not able to see that. Thats very important when it comes to distinguishing these types and shadows.

So i'm not saying adam is Christ, God forbid, what i am saying though is adam was a shadow and type of Christ in certain ways.

Colossians 2:16-18 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body[casting the shadow] is of Christ.

Hope this helps ya.

God bless,

Alex

[lilitalienboi16]

Greetings all,
Great posts and thanks!

Perhaps the "rib" is a type of the Spirit too, (which may make Eve a shadow too?)
shadows (as in the law being a shadow of good things to come, Heb. 10:1)
The natural rib of man is there to give structure to the body, as well as to protect the inner organs/parts ie: the heart/lungs. The Spirit fulfills this function in the "spiritual body."  It is this Spirit that we (Gentiles/carnal man) receive by faith in order to become children in the family of God.  Now I'm getting into faith (a little off topic, but interconnected just like all the systems that make up a body). The just shall live by faith. (Gal.3 explains the promise is through faith, and that the promise came prior to the law, and that it is only promised to one seed - Jesus) Note vs.23-25: But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. This is why it is of utmost importance that we become "one" with Jesus, through faith, by his Spirit.

I tend to agree with sonofone in that I don't like the romanticizing of disobedience. Perhaps there is a further explanation, in that there is a connection between heart and mind. I read in Gen.3:11,12 that God doesn't ask "Why did you eat," he asks "Who told you that you're naked? Have you eaten..." and Adam truthfully replies. So he doesn't even blame Eve, he answers the questions. I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

All in all, I've really enjoyed everyone's input and hope we can all continue to grow.
All the best in Christ,
G.

The very reason Christ died on the Cross was to show that God indeed loved humanity. Although it was for sin, it was also to display love. Is this not emotional?

"For God THUS [Meaning in THIS MANNER] loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

Again, i think you guys are takeing a shadow, and confusing it with the reality. That is not what i was doing or saying.

God bless,

Alex

[hillsbororiver]

I enjoyed your thread Alex,it is nice to see what God can do in the mind of anyone that submitts to him. Types and shadows are throughout the bible and this is a good illustration of that. I personally have a problem with the Adam dying with his wife as not to be separated from her. Not that I can't see the sense of it. Just the romantic part of it that suggest something noble about his decision to disobey God. Love should have caused him to lead her to the tree of life not the tree of death. But that's just me.Good post brother.

Hi All,

It would not be the first time in either Biblical or secular history that the lust/love has influenced a man to do the wrong thing and sin, often leading to despair and/or misery for both, men have lied, stolen, cheated and killed out of the desire (love?) for a woman. Men have also left their first (carnal) love, their own wives to persue the "other woman."

Of course a perfect godly (Spirit of Christ) love would not allow for this but a lustful, carnal (Adam) love would, could and does it every single day. Physical, earthly love is imperfect and self serving, only the love that manifests itself from the Spirit of Christ is perfect and selfless.

First the physical (Adam) then the Spiritual (Christ).

A shadow is a dark outline, a barely perceptible image of what is actually casting the shadow.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Gregor]

I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

You then say,

The very reason Christ died on the Cross was to show that God indeed loved humanity. Although it was for sin, it was also to display love. Is this not emotional?

Greetings,

I'm not saying that emotions weren't involved in both Adam and Christ's decisions and I don't think that I'm confused on this issue at all. I agree that Christ died to demonstrate love, but suggest that Adam died because of his lust. I disagree with both you and Ray in how you use "love" to describe what Adam felt towards Eve. I don't think that Adam truly loved Eve, but rather he lusted for her, made an idol of her in his heart, placing his desire for his own pleasure above the obedience to God - even if it meant he would die (the epitomy of carnal thinking). As Joe put it, first the natural, then the spiritual. We are in agreement in that Christ died for the remission of sin, which demonstrates love, but ultimately my point is that Christ paying the penalty, rather than us, confirms the righteousness of God. God had to stay true to his word, keep his promise to Abraham, and find a way to show mercy (salvation) to us apart from the law. All of this further demonstrates that it isn't about whether or not you or I am right, but that God is right.

All the best in Christ,
G.

[lilitalienboi16]

I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

You then say,

The very reason Christ died on the Cross was to show that God indeed loved humanity. Although it was for sin, it was also to display love. Is this not emotional?

Greetings,

I'm not saying that emotions weren't involved in both Adam and Christ's decisions and I don't think that I'm confused on this issue at all. I agree that Christ died to demonstrate love, but suggest that Adam died because of his lust. I disagree with both you and Ray in how you use "love" to describe what Adam felt towards Eve. I don't think that Adam truly loved Eve, but rather he lusted for her, made an idol of her in his heart, placing his desire for his own pleasure above the obedience to God - even if it meant he would die (the epitomy of carnal thinking). As Joe put it, first the natural, then the spiritual. We are in agreement in that Christ died for the remission of sin, which demonstrates love, but ultimately my point is that Christ paying the penalty, rather than us, confirms the righteousness of God. God had to stay true to his word, keep his promise to Abraham, and find a way to show mercy (salvation) to us apart from the law. All of this further demonstrates that it isn't about whether or not you or I am right, but that God is right.

All the best in Christ,
G.

I think you are mis understanding me greg.

I certainly feel that adams love toward eve was tainted with his physical lust for her and sexual desire, but to say that adam had no love for eve, i don't know if we have any really proof of that.

Perhaps you are thinking of the term that i am useing love for, as the term that we would give to God who LOVES us. Certainly God is not LUSTFUL of anything, so it is different, but when i speak of adams love for eve, most certainly there is lust involved. Is this not how any of our relationships with that certain special someone is? Is there not that first physical attraction, THAT LUST?

God be with you,

Alex

[Gregor]

Absolutely Alex, that is why even we (believers, walking in the spirit) are not yet perfect, but only a shadow of what we too will become. Adam may have known love in part, as do we, but it was his lust (idolatry of the heart, self seeking) that would make him choose his wife over the commandment of God (again, the epitomy of carnal thinking, of which we're all guilty).

Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The reality is, that if we did love in its purest form, we would never get married, and we would be as it is in heaven, neither married, nor given in marriage, but one with God (Imitating Christ). Our prime reason for marriage is because of the war raging in our members and our lack of self-control (fruit of the spirit). This too is a part of the plan.
Rom.8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

1Cor.13

[4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

The bolded qualities in vs.4-8 are the areas we (Adam) fall short (now, in part) while yet in the flesh.

[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Unlike Adam (us), Christ laid down his life in obedience to the command of God, not as the result of disobedience. Adam may have thought he was doing a noble thing (in his mind, therefore vanity), but our best is not even close to what God requires in righteousness. God clearly states:

Isa.40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity

Jer.2:5 Thus saith the LORD, What iniquity have your fathers found in me, that they are gone far from me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?

The vanity found in lust is part of God's plan, a shadow of the love and relationship we will oneday know in full. Everything in His timing. Again, this isn't about whether or not you or I am right, but that God is right. Maybe we're both misunderstanding eachother due to ambiguous wording?

All the best in Christ,
G.

[lilitalienboi16]

Yes greg, it is the 'ambiguous' wording, that is causing the confusion.

I believe that we are both in agreement.

Perhaps i should have been a bit more clear in that, i apoligize for the confusion. I do agree that adam did lust after eve but i don't think any harm or injustice is done to say that he also loved her the way all carnal beings would love there significant other. It most surely isn't perfect, and it is definatly tainted by lustful and sexual desires, but nonetheless i don't think it would make it any less true to say that he loved her, instead of he lusted after her.

I see your point though. Good eyes!

I think ill replace the word LOVE there, for LUST, just so this confusion doesn't happen again, perhaps with a different audience.

God bless greg and thanks for the imput!

Love to you,

Alex

[ez2u]

Evie is Christ too a part that many church doctrine does not  support but if you look at Proverbs 31 you will see the very nature of Christ in the virtuous woman.  To say Christ was female also will make some to cover their ears and scream but as I studied the words He is both  These are positions female and male of the very nature of God.  People flow in and out of them.  this is a deep thought like erternal salvation for all.  As long as we think one species is not cable of grasping Christ as well as the other we will not be able  to walk in The Kingdom of Christ Peggy

[LittleBear]

Hi Peggy,

Did you read the new transcript Kat posted by Ray; Esther-the Destiny of Women? It's pretty encouraging.

Ursula

[ez2u]

Ursula  yes i have I do not receive the teaching of the church on this subject.  The holy Spirit has been showing me in scriptures and by His illumination of those scriptures that these are positions female and male not what  body parts you have.  In Christ there is neither male nor female.  The Holy Spirit began to draw me out of the worlds thinking which is all over and especially bad in the middle east right now but was not so always. I posted about this in general discussion  thank you  peggy

[sonofone]

Hi,Peggy,I asked Dianne to start a post on this issue on last week and now see that you have started a post on this today. I know that you laid out a pretty in depth post of this issue and asked people to think before posting a response,so I have not responded to it as of yet. I would love for you to break your understanding down in laymans terms so that I could feel free to give my input.