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[orion77]

The whole 21st chapter of John and the capturing of 153 fish on the right side must be very symbolic.  Just wondering if Ray or Mike has wrote anything on this subject?  

This took place after Jesus had been ressurected, with an exact number of fish being caught, there must be some deep spiritual message hidden here.

Any thoughts?

God bless,

Gary

[love_magnified]

Just for the sake of curiosity I did a search for 153 in the bible and found this:

2 Chronicles 2:17 Solomon then took a census of all the foreigners living in Israel, using the same census-taking method employed by his father. They numbered 153,600.

That was the only instance where the number was used, that I could find.

[rvhill]

If you want to know the meaning of numbers, if they have any meaning at all. You have to study numerology. I am not talking about that bible code BS either, but Jewish mysticism. I am not sure the time spent would be worth it though.

[alucard]

you know you have to consider this.i copied it so everything on this is what most scholars really think

[The text of the Gospel of John appears to reach a conclusion at the end of chapter 20, as the text summarises the many signs that Jesus performed for his followers, not all of which could be recorded in the Gospel. John 21 begins simply with After these things... (Greek: ?et? ta?ta) and nonchalently recounts another appearance of Jesus, as if the conclusion at the end of the prior chapter hadn't been there - as if the text was going "...and they all lived happily ever after. The end. Anyway, back in Galilee they ...". Therefore, most scholars of textual criticism hold that John 21 is a later addition to the work, normally called the Appendix to the Gospel by scholars.

Various theories have been suggested as to why the chapter might have been added. Westcott stated, "It is impossible to suppose that it was the original design of the Evangelist to add the incidents of chapter 21 after the verses which form a solemn close of his record of the great history of the conflict of faith and unbelief in the life of Christ." One point of view is that the author simply decided to add an additional incident at some time after writing the book, but before final publication.

The chapter does not fit in with the carefully planned scheme of the previous 20 chapters, which are otherwise balanced in style and discourse around a central chapter. It is thought that the chapter was added to explain the death of Peter, which was either an event not known about by the author, or that had not happened until some time after the original version of the Gospel was completed, or that the original author had not considered it important. Some consider that the addition is to emphasise the importance of Peter, whom the church orthodoxy, and specifically the papacy, considered their founder, against that of the unnamed beloved disciple.

The Church Father Tertullian wrote, "And wherefore does this conclusion of the gospel affirm that these things were written unless it is that you might believe, it says, that Jesus Christ is the son of God?", which describes the end of Chapter 20, not Chapter 21. Thus many scholars hold that the book existed without the last chapter at that time. However, the Nestle-Aland critical text of the New Testament lists no surviving copies of the Gospel that omit this chapter.

Further doubt on the last chapter is cast by differences of literary style, which is said to resemble the Gospel of Luke more closely than that of John, and theological orientation. In particular, this chapter is much more ecclesiastically oriented than the rest of the book, stressing the role of Peter as the shepherd.

The description of the "beloved disciple's" (normally assumed to be John) fate is presented as an aside to Peter. Jesus says that it is not Peter's concern, even if Jesus should wish that that disciple remain alive until the end of time. The following verse clarifies that Jesus did not say "This disciple will not die", but that it was not Peter's affair to know. Many critics presume that this disciple must have died before the addition of the section.
The appendage's appendage
The chapter is closed by two verses that appear to be an even later addition, and seem to be an attempt to resolve the ambiguity over the prior comment about John and whether he would or wouldn't die, in a manner suitable to the church. The last two verses sit incongruously with the remainder of the chapter and seem to be written from a different point of view - referring to the author of the gospel (whoever it might be) in the 3rd person ("... for we know that what he [referring to the author of the gospel] says is true"). For this reason, the last two verses are known as "The Appendix to the Appendix".

The statement within these two verses that "we know what he says is true" implies either that the writer of the verses is not the writer of the remainder, or that the writer perceives that there will be significant doubt about the authorship of the work (or the chapter), which is in itself an indicator that the work is not written by the claimed author. Those who doubt the authenticity of the Gospel might think that these last verses are an attempt to imply that authorship of the Gospel was by an apostle and eyewitness. This aims to make John's Gospel more important than the synoptic Gospels, of which only the Gospel of Matthew was considered an eyewitness report by the ancients. It also aims to support the Gospel's superiority where it conflicts with the others, thus serving any polemical or apologetic purpose that might have existed for writing the gospel.]

[ertsky]

Hello Everybody,

One of of our sisters in Christ Noelia has sent me a study that she did along with her exchange with another sister Pat.

I've posted it on the aionios site because of all the text formating Here:

Thanks Noelia, Pat and Deedle, insights abounding !

John 21 what a great chapter, so full of spiritual Truth

i remember being so moved (to tears) when i saw what was going on in verses 15 to 17 with agape and phileo and what was transpiring between Jesus and peter (Petra and petros)

and these verses as well impossible to over value

Joh 21:18  Truly, truly, I say to you, When you were younger, you girded yourself, and you walked where you desired. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you, and will carry you where you do not desire.
Joh 21:19  But He said this signifying by what death he would glorify God. And having said this, He told him, Follow Me.

just awesome !

PS: LM that 2Chron2 is amazing, i can't wait till i can read that chapter with more spiritual eyes, it seems just bursting with meaning as well !

f

[orion77]

Thanks everybody for the posts.  Deedle thanks for posting the study between Noelia and Pat, very enlightening.  Gods ways are great, amazing how he rewards us who search Him out.  I love it!

I think it interesting how they fished all night and caught nothing.  Could this be the many called who are still in darkness trying with all their own might to save souls?  Notice they did not see Jesus, until daybreak, and still didn't know who it was.  Without Jesus in us we can do nothing.  This seems to run very deep.  Even that there were 7 disciples present and in two different boats.  Seems the numbers 7 and 10, also are important.

Darkness always come before the light, even in Genesis.  And in all of our lives.  It is incredible how the spiritual things of God come about.  


Solomon asked for a man with seven skills but was given one with ten.

2Chr 2:7
 'And now, send to me a wise man to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in iron, and in purple, and crimson, and blue, and knowing to grave gravings with the wise men who are with me in Judah and in Jerusalem, whom David my father prepared;

2Chr 2:14
(son of a woman of the daughters of Dan, and his father a man of Tyre), knowing to work in gold, and in silver, in brass, in iron, in stones, and in wood, in purple, in blue, and in fine linen, and in crimson, and to grave any graving, and to devise any device that is given to him, with thy wise men, and the wise men of my lord David thy father.


Paul writes 1 list of 7 and another list of 10 things that cannot separate us from Gods love.

Rom 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of the Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:36
(according as it hath been written-'For Thy sake we are put to death all the day long, we were reckoned as sheep of slaughter,')

Rom 8:37
but in all these we more than conquer, through him who loved us;

Rom 8:38
for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor messengers, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,

Rom 8:39
nor things about to be, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of god, that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


In Hebrews, Paul compares the symbolism of the mountain of God in the old covenant (7 symbols), with the spiritual (symbolic) mountain of God in the new covenant (10 symbols).

Heb 12:18
. For ye came not near to the mount touched and scorched with fire, and to blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:19
and a sound of a trumpet, and a voice of sayings, which those having heard did entreat that a word might not be added to them,


Heb 12:22
But, ye came to Mount Zion, and to a city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of messengers,

Heb 12:23
to the company and assembly of the first-born in heaven enrolled, and to God the judge of all, and to spirits of righteous men made perfect,

Heb 12:24
and to a mediator of a new covenant-Jesus, and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel!


Hope I have not crossed any bounds here, but the book of John 21st chapter if plumb full of good stuff.   :lol:

God bless,

Gary

[ertsky]

oh WOW! great post there Gary !

if this keeps up i'm going to have to ask God to bless me less LOL! ( just kidding Lord, oh you already knew that )

talk about

Psa 23:1  <A Psalm of David.> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

awesome !

/ertsky wanders along deep in the thought that the Great Provider is providing living manna

f