Dear Ray,
There was a man and a woman who said: "man does not have free will" and a man and a woman who said "man does have free will", all 4 are incorrect and correct at the same time because it's all relative since "free will" is not a thing or a place, it's a state of mind or a state of living or being (emphasis mine throughout this note to you). With most topics, generally, either one side is wrong and the other side right or visa versa which makes it easy for the bystanders to "choose sides" if they want to. With this topic, however, the problem is that both views are extremes of one great and grand good topic which deserves better. Thus, both extremes, although sincere, are in righteous spiritual error because both extremes lead humans to ditches, ie. arguements and a waste of time refuting one another. ----& nbsp;& amp; nbsp; The best solution here is for both sides to let go the sticks and stones and shake hands at the middle of the same field of play which both are standing on. Said another way the more balanced Christian way of discussing it (free will) is, as the Bible states it in Genesis, that: men and women can freely do and not do things (choose) as they please in the world and universe that God has made for us. Just because we live in the earth that God has made and eat the foods that God has made it does not mean we can't exercise perfect freedom of choice. To argue here that "freedom of choice" and "free will" are two different things is to "worldly". God is the Great Giver and he has given us, right from the beginning (the garden of eden), the greatest gift of all, FREEDOM, here on earth and not on Mar or wherever else we would want to live. If He had'nt we would have millions of cry ba bies s aying in the final judgement "I never really had a choice, oh man"! That's why the world is as it is today. Because of our freedom of choice we have a sick and dying world (sin). We chose the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and not the tree of life. We sinned right off the bat!
No free will ------------------------- freedom of choice --------------------------- Pure Free will
God chooses everything for us We choose freely "inside" God's creation Chaos
God Manipulates everything God says: "Choose Life" but allows death Chaos
( extreme ) ( more balanced ) ( extreme )
Last thing, please hear me out: God is the creator of everything: our world and the universe (physical things). He is also the creator of good and evil (spiritual "things") in that he is responsible for "their existance" but of course never practices evil. And, also the creator of life itself apart from himself in the form of angels, mankind, and other kinds of creatures. Being a God of love and full of tender mercies, He cares for us or is "responsible" for our ultimate future and thus has provided for us a Savior in Jesus Christ and eternal life filled with the Holy Spirit. After all, it was He who created the Garden of Eden in the first place for Adam and Eve and also allowed the serpent (by the way, the devil probably munched on the "apple" long before Eve ever did since that tree probably had been sitting there long before the garden was plan ted th ere) to get in there while He was "away".
This Garden of Eden scenario is a perfect example of the excercise of Freedom for all envolved, well, except the devil, who had to come in as a snake. He probably would have preferred coming in as an angel of light, but God said no ----- Your technically right in saying that mankind does not have "free will" because, by definition, free will in it's purest extreme form, in my example, implies that Adam and Eve could have then chosen not to be in the garden of eden in the first place, etc. God made the Garden for them and place them there and gave them no choice about it but he did give them things to choose from in it. In fact he ordered them to eat everything, except from one tree. Ray, by implying that man does not have "free will" unblievers will see it as folly because it's so evident that we do have freedom of choice a nd can freely choose right or wrong as we please in God good earth. God has no part in confusing word or phrase arguements. I also think that you have made this subject so much a part of your belief system that you won't see another side of it because you will then have to change other things. Don't be afraid of this as you have many other good points. Hell for instance.
To be continued.
No offense, Ray, thanks for reading it.
Raul
Dear Raul: I am not quite sure when "Truth" become "EXTREME truth?" I assure you that I am not "afraid of this" as you foolish suggest. So I am "technically right in saying that mankind does not have 'free will.' Then just how am I "UN-technically" wrong? Your statements like, "free will in it's PUREST EXTREME FORM," are extremely foolish and UN-pure. You have not a clue.....not a clue as to what you are talking about. And let me assure you that there IS NOT "other side" or "contradicting side" of the "truth." I am always ready to receive correction and enlightenment, but your foolish and unscriptural arguments provide none. Until you see the truth concerning man's total lack of "free will/choice" and the Sovereignty of God, you will never understand yourself, or the Scriptures and the purpose for humanity on this earth.
God be with you,
Ray
PS Rest assured also that you are not capable of "offending me."
