Hello Darren
Thank you for your contribution. It is precisely this kind of communication that spurs me to greater precision in my thinking and deeper desire to understand Jesus Christ and the Word of God.
Your post made me return to the fact that the Image of God is not yet complete in us. If we sin no more and are delivered out of delusion, seeing partially as in a glass mirror dimly as Peggy contributed in another thread of mine, then, Darren, how can we be born again while yet in this life. Okay I see the point you make about us having the deposit of the Holy Spirit of Christ that is working in some of us yet how can we be certain who is who except by the fruit and even then can we be sure because as it is written only God can see the heart.
Peace to you
Arcturus
Hi Arcturus,
Thank you so much for your comments. I am still with you okay, but you ask:
"Darren, how can we be born again while yet in this life"The Spirit is leading me in this, yet I am not sure where it is I will end. (I know what John meant)
One would appear that the phrase "Born Again" requires several things to have occured.
1.
Having been once born 2.
Having died 3.
Being born again.We were all born of the flesh, this is a given; however, the remaining two points seem to be addressed by both John and Paul.
How can we die, but yet still live?I believe Paul answers this very clearly with his following words:
Rom 6:2
By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Here Paul very clearly states that "we" have died to sin. Death, this is thre requirement of the second clause. But how did we die?
Rom 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?Well Paul links this to baptism in Christ, not only in his life, but also his death.
Rom 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.So when Christ died and was buried, our old self died and was buried with him. But did our old self die?
Rom 6:5
If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.According to Paul, our old self did die. I think Pauls next words whole the key. Our old self died, but it was raised with Christ on HIS ressurection. Paul continues on with.....
Rom 6:6
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin–Our Old Self was crucified with Christ, so that we should no longer be slaves to sin, the body of sin is gone. Please know that his is news to me. That the body of sin is done away with NOW. It must be, else Christ died for nothing.
Rom 6:7
because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.[/color][/i]
We are freed from sin and are no longer slaves to it or the law.
Rom 6:8
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.I believe this answers part one of your question of how one can die, but yet still live.
How can we die, but yet still live?So if our Old self died with Christ, what then was made anew?
Paul helps us gain understanding with the following:
Rom 6:17
But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.There are two parts here: "Used to be slaves," can only me prior to Christs death. "You wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted." must mean after the granting of the Spirit, which followed the ressurection of Christ.
Christ was raised as a Spirit, although we cannot state the same, does not the Spirit live in us? And as such, are we not slaves to God and not to sin? (Rom 6:18)
1 John 3:2
2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
John makes it very clear that he was not always a child of God. What happened? Could it be that with the deat and resuurection of Christ and the coming of the Spirit, that John fully realized that his old self was dead, and now with the Spirit his life as a child of God had begun. A new life.
I find this interesting, as I know once God began opening my eyes with his Spirit, I became a new person almost everything within me changed. I think many will relate to this.
John concludes this discussion with the following:
1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them.
And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. Was not a NEW life given us? (Rom 6:4)
My question to anyone reading this, is: Do you consider yourself the same person still, after having your eyes, ears and hearts opened by the Spirit.
In some sense, I would hope all here have been born again (made anew) in the Spirit.
1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
Please know I am not teaching or suggesting anything, I am just sharing what has been given me. I will gladly stand corrected. Arcturus, I hope I have given sufficient Scriptural backing to satisfactorily answer your question.
Let me add also, that I believe (at least) I am still yet a babe in the truth, and have much learning and growing before any would call me mature. But praise be to God for all that he has given me.
Love to you in Christ,
Darren