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How can I talk to a "literalist"???

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chav:
Hi
I too have tried to speak of these things to a few people , but they just don't get it. But then up to a year or so ago I didn't get it either.
How about the bottomles pit (submerged chaos) mentioned in Revelation, presumably if it is a literal bottomless pit you could throw a new born baby into it, and that baby would grow into aduldhood and age and die without hitting the bottom.
How will we recognise Jesus at the end of the age ? easy he's the man with a sword coming out of his mouth.
Having been a bit of a literalist at one time it seems so foolish now, but at the time you genuinely feel you are defending the truth, and that does not leave you very open to the fact that you might be wrong, which is not a good place to be in.
I am so grateful to God that he has opened my eyes to see so much more of his truth, and that what it really comes down to ,God opening eyes.
Dave UK

josh:
Kent,

Hi. I don't believe we've met before... my names Josh. Nice to meet you.

I can relate to the frustration you must be feeling when it seems like you have hit a brick wall with someone you are attempting to discuss the scriptures with who has an opposing view to yours. It has been almost two years now since I first began to wrestle with the ideas of universal reconciliation and an interpretation of the scriptures that differs from the common beliefs of mainstream christianity...

I have been consistently baffled at the responses of others to the idea of God's love for all humanity not failing in the salvation work... I have encountered a multiplicity of response... some who wish to argue, others called me names and tried to label me as part of a "cult'... some who could no longer accept me as a friend...

I have had to remind myself constantly now on my journey that there was a time that I believed much like those who now reject my beliefs... a time where i believed in a more literal interpretation, a time where I believed in eternal punishment, a time where I accepted ideas about God that could not be scripturally supported because I believed the words of well meaning pastors, friends and family...

In realizing this I don't get so frustrated as often... day by day, I'm coming to terms with that God is truly working all in all and it's not my responsibility to "convince" anyone of anything. My job is to simply seek God and the truths of God's word... and to live those truths in a way that others can see.

Arguments, debates, heated conversations, etc. will never change anyones mind and will only wear you out... my suggestion to you is to love this person, pray for them... but don't exhausted yourself trying to figure out ways to talk to them so that they will see your point of view... if we're honest, we cannot see now because we chose to... but because God saw fit to open our eyes.

God's Peace.
Josh

Grateful:
I learned the hard way within the past 2 years that once a person's mind is made up, about their own religious beliefs, especially where the veracity of the Authorized King James Bible Version is concerned.  A couple of people told me, when I said "There is no Hell,"  "Yes there is....God is JUST! "    Sheeeee...... !!!  They were SO adamant about it, and one of them even said that Jesus mentioned "Hell" more times than He did "Heaven", that I just simply had to maintain Silence.  At that time, I had not yet looked up every occurrence of the word "hell" in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, and discovered FOR MYSELF that in every single instance it was referred to as "the grave" and "hades" (a place of fiery torment for the unsaved).   Now I understand it when the Bible says, "Ye are a stiff-necked people..." , referring to those who refuse to HEAR and to SEE.  And, gee, it's so sad when that happens.....how  FREE  their whole Inner Being would FEEL , if they only KNEW the TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!!!   :D   Because of being liberated out of a religious prison, my spirit feels like FLYING, or DANCING, quite often!!   :D :D ;D

HALLOWED be the BELOVED , forever!!!!

Linda

Bradigans:
All true born again (John 3:3, John 3:7) bonafide believers are literalist. Just not from a carnal perspective.

-1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

-2 Corinthians 5:7 - (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

It all depends on your perspective of literal...

Deborah-Leigh:
Regarding what is literal and what is spiritual here is something to consider. Quote from http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

TRUTH NUMBER 1

[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).

"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]…" (I Cor. 15:44).

[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY…" (Phil. 3:21).

[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).

The sequence of God’s plan of salvation for mankind is most important—First is the physical and then comes the spiritual.

Without the knowledge of this principle of Scripture, it is impossible to understand what man is and what is his destiny. Have you not been taught that the first Adam was indeed a "quickening, living, immortal spirit," and that afterward, at the resurrection; his immortal soul will be given an ETERNAL PHYSICAL BODY? (Then there is also the ungodly doctrine called the "Law of Circularity" which teaches that we have always existed as spirits, and are now spirits having a physical experience—just the opposite of the truth).

It was the natural body of Adam that became a living soul after God breathed into him. And that living soul was subject to death (Gen. 2:17 and Ezek. 18:4 & 20). Even this simple, straight-forward truth of Scripture is universally denied.

God said that Adam would "SURELY die" (Gen. 2:17). But most have been taught that Adam was an immortal, spiritual soul that can NEVER, EVER DIE. I just received a DVD from Internationally famous, self-styled prophet, Jack Van Impe, in which it is stated: "Once we are born, WE NEVER DIE." Jack Van Impe parrots that Old Serpent who told the world’s first recorded lie, when he said: "you shall NOT SURELY die" (Gen. 3:4)

It is universally taught (and believed) that Adam and Eve were already formed and created in the very spiritual image of God way back in the garden. This is not, however, how the Hebrew manuscripts read, as a perfect creature formed in the very spiritual image of God, that not only does not sin, but cannot sin. The reason that Jesus (made unto sinful flesh) did not sin, was not that He could not sin, but rather His Father WOULD NOT LET HIM SIN. Jesus was born with a physical body, and therefore that body had to die. But I assure you that Jesus did not possess a "carnal mind" in that body of flesh. He sinned NOT.

Making mankind into God’s own Image is a process that involves a lifetime of trials and tribulations that includes the crucifying and mortifying of the carnal human mind and body. I realize that from the King James and many modern translations it sounds like it was a "past tense" made in His image at creation, but actually it was not. Gen. 1:26-27 is equivalent to our English imperfect. Here is how one Version translates it:

"And saying is God, Make WILL WE [a continuing action] humanity in Our image…"

and

"And CREATING [a continuing action] is God humanity in His image" (Gen. 1:26a & 27a Concordant Literal Old Testament),

Man is not a "spirit being" having a "physical" experience, but rather man is a "physical and mortal" being having a "spiritual" experience. We are first born mortal [physical], but in the resurrection God gives us immortality (the spiritual). Throw away this marvelous truth of Scripture, and you will be as deceived as Kenneth Copeland when he stated that when Adam was created, he was so shining, so glorious, so spiritual, so GOD-like, that one could not even see his body for the glorious radiance of his spirituality. Oh really? And is that why he was "naked," although he "…knew not that he was wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and NAKED" (Gen. 3: 7 versus Rev. 3:17)?

Just prior to Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, we read that Eve:

"…saw that the tree was good for food [‘the lust of the flesh,’ I John 2:16],

and that it was pleasant to the eyes [‘the lust of the eyes,’ I John 2:16],

and a tree to be desired to make one wise [‘the pride of life,’ I John 2:16],

she did eat… and he did eat" (Gen. 3:6).

It is not just the eating of the fruit that was a sin, but the "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life" that went before the eating. And just why where they so filled with sin at their very creation? Because they were in the "perfect spiritual image of GOD?" Poppycock. They were natural, physical, carnal, and "…the carnal mind [with which Adam and Eve were created] is enmity [hatred] against God, for it is not subject to the law of God [‘But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it…’ Gen. 2:17], neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

So, do the Scriptures really teach what the world has been taught—that Adam and Eve were made into the perfect spiritual "image of God?" Get real.

Here is how GOD says He created Adam and Eve:

"For the creature was made subject to vanity [King James Margin: "futility"], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected [Gk: ‘subjects’—aorist tense—subjecting is still going on] the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).

In Dante’s inferno, "all hope is gone…," but in God’s realm He subjects the entire creation "…in HOPE,"

God willfully, wantingly, knowingly, purposely, and wisely, created mankind "subject to vanity," subject to failure, but beyond the failure, God also subjects the same in "hope." Once again, contrary to all orthodox doctrine, there is hope for all of God’s carnal-minded, God-hating people on planet Earth. God Himself says so, in the same breath: "because the creature itself [the same creation that God subjects to vanity, futility, failure, and carnal-minded hatred against God] also shall be [ah, did you catch that? ‘shall be’], delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21). Do you believe the Scriptures? Really—what about this one?

And so God, "made the creature subject to vanity"—failure, but later in mankind’s development, the creature "shall be"— [future tense]… shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption." Ah yes, God created them in a condition of "bondage" and "corruption," and therefore not "immortal" as is taught, but rather in "bondage of corruption." But thanks to God, in the resurrection of the dead, ‘…this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality’ (I Cor. 15:54).

Yes, of course, first comes the PHYSICAL (death), and then the SPIRITUAL (life). There it is—the hope of all humanity. Corruption and mortality (the physical first) must put on incorruption and immortality [the afterward spiritual).
 


Peace to you

Arcturus :)

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