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Author Topic: We Can Only Experience  (Read 5891 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: We Can Only Experience
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2007, 09:01:48 AM »

Amen Darren!
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indianabob

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Re: We Can Only Experience
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2007, 02:02:42 PM »

Joe, Kat, Darren, Arcturus and all,

You are all probably aware of this in your own experience.

I communicate with a lovely woman who thinks of herself as a non-believer and justifies her view by quoting Bible passages illustrating the "cruel and selfish" things that God does.  I am reasonably sure that she does not have the calling we have been given, but she is concerned about the welfare of friends and relatives "who are deceived into believing that the God of the Bible is love and is kind to His children".

She notes the world wide flood, the tribal wars and the punishments that God is responsible for and even commands in the Bible and especially the poor treatment of women throughout the Bible in the culture and customs that are illustrated in which women are treated as property by their fathers and their husbands.

My point is that it is difficult to even discuss the fact that God has a loving purpose in mind when she reads all that God is responsible for when He not only allows but even plans for humans, especially women and children to suffer in order to learn that evil is evil.

I have read all that has been written in this thread and agree, but I am noting that this understanding cannot even be shared with the world unless and until their minds are cleansed.  Maybe we are destined to be alone in our understanding until Messiah returns.  Maybe we should not be too concerned about sharing this information and drawing persecution down upon ourselves on a personal level, since it appears that most will not be able to accept it.

How can we be a light and an example and be 'always ready to give an answer' in a positive manner and still avoid unnecessary and counter-productive confrontations that bring persecutions upon ourselves and still yield no good fruit?  Are we then casting pearls of wisdom before 'swine' (the world) and finding that the "swine" don't want our/god's wisdom and don't even recognize our information as wisdom?

Maybe we try too hard to convince others of wisdom that we needed years of correction to accept and even then as a miracle from God.

Please comment and correct as needed.

Bob
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: We Can Only Experience
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2007, 02:26:25 PM »

Hello Bob

I believe no one can lead anyone anywhere.Even if we have a flash light and shine it in blind eyes, those eyes will still not see.

Your post reminds me of what Ray teaches. Quote : All my life I heard of "winning souls for Jesus." It is taught throughout the whole world of Christendom. Christians are taught they must "witness for Jesus" and in so doing will "win" some souls for Jesus. Many Christians feel a definite need to try and reach people for Jesus before they die. The Christian teaching is that if anyone is not reached and persuaded to accept Jesus as his personal Saviour before he dies, then he will at death immediately go into the pagan Greek hell of hades and be tortured in fire for all eternity. Even after learning many of the Truths of God on bible-truths.com, people continue to ask me how they can fulfill their obligation to witness for Christ and become effective teachers of Godís Truths to their family, neighbors, or fellow parishioners.

Shocking as it might sound to most, the Scriptures know nothing of "winning souls for Jesus." It is a man-made doctrine of the carnal mind.
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

You ask : How can we be a light and an example and be 'always ready to give an answer' .....

I believe our preparation is in how we are going to answer to God not to man or in avoidance of men who are carnal and hate God.

Luke 21 : 36 Watch, keep awake then and watch at all times, be discreet, attentive, and ready, praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.

I like the praying advice in the above verse...praying for me means being in dialogue with God not man....praying praying ;D that is what we are doing here. Learing His Word and His Truths and building on that via fellowship with like minded brethren! Well this is how I see this anyway.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 02:40:10 PM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: We Can Only Experience
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2007, 04:46:47 PM »

Hello jER

Yes! Circumstances!

2 Cor 4 : 8 We are hedged in on every side, troubled and oppressed in every way, but no cramped or crushed; we suffer embarrassments and are perplexed and unable to find a way out, (of our circumstances?) but not driven to despair; 9. We are pursued, persecuted and hard driven, but not deserted, we are struck down to the ground, but never struck out and destroyed, 10 Always carrying about in the body the liability and exposure to the same putting to death that the Lord Jesus suffered, so that the resurrection life of Jesus also may be shown forth by and in our bodies.

Paul knew about circumstances!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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rjsurfs

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Re: We Can Only Experience
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2007, 04:51:17 PM »

God is always on the side of circumstance... and always the cause behind circumstance.

From 12 God Given Truths To Understand His Word:
Quote
No man does seek God except and until God brings about circumstances wherein he does seek God. But He only does seek God because "All is of God" who brings about the circumstances whereby someone who would not seek God, now does seek God.

From The Myth of Freewill Part A
Quote
In every case Scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance. This law of "cause and effect" is stated and demonstrated time and again in Scripture. Ignorance of these behind the scenes causes does not disprove the fact that they are the actual and literal cause of our choices.

"Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor, which appears for a little time, and then vanishes away. For that ye ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that" (James 4:13-15).

More from The Myth of Freewill Part A
Quote
What did the Holy Spirit of God inspire (cause?) James to explain as a major factor in what determines the true outcome of manís will? Answer: "Whereas you know not what shall be on the morrow."

God changes the minds and wills of mankind around the world, a billion times a minute, through circumstances that "you know not" are actually the cause of your choices and your changed choices. We are often if not most of the time completely unaware of what actually caused us to do or say or think as we do.

How did all the disciples will to remain loyal to Jesus no matter what, at one moment in time, and in the next moment in time, they all changed their will to forsake Him? What changed their wills? Circumstances. One moment they were at ease and safe in the upper room, and at a later moment they were in the garden surrounded by Roman Soldiers! Fear was the circumstance that caused their (un-free) wills to change.

So it was the presence of certain circumstances that caused the disciples to will as they did. But what caused the circumstances to be as they were to ensure that they would will appropriately to fulfill Christís prophecy concerning their denying and forsaking Him?

GODíS WILL: Notice the second thing that the Holy Spirit inspired James to write regarding what will or will not happen on any given day to any given person. "Öif the Lord willÖ"

Who was in charge of all these circumstances, which caused the disciples to change their wills? Why God, of course. They did not want to change their wills. They did not desire to deny their Lord and Saviour. They did not wish to make liars and fools of themselves. They did not want to be shown that they were all cowards. Well then, why did they change their wills if they did not wish to change their wills? Were they free to not change their wills? No, they were not free.

The fear inside of them caused and made (and yes, FORCED, if you will) them to change their will. And Jesus Himself told them that they would change their wills, so how pray tell could it have been otherwise? Yet I suppose that some are so spiritually stubborn that they will still insist that the apostles did not need to change their wills, that their wills were yet free to stay loyal in the face of these fearful circumstances.

When we argue with God like this, we demean Him. God has a plan, and God brings about His plan. God is not stupid. God knows exactly how to cause man (all mankind) to do exactly as He plans for them to do.


Bobby
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Robin

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Re: We Can Only Experience
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2007, 07:29:42 PM »

Hebrews 11

17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

 20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

 21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

 22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

 23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

 24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

 25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

 26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

 28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

 29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

 31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

 34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

 35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

 39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 12
 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

 5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

 6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

 7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.

 9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

 11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

 13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

 14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

 15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

 16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

 17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 18For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

 19And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

 20(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

 21And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

 22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

 26Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

 27And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

 28Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

 29For our God is a consuming fire.
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