Working, socialising with unbelievers

[Nancy]

Hi there all,

I am thinking a lot lately about this subject.
At the moment, i have a job which i love doing, a waitress in between cleaning and washing up, a jack of all trades. I look forward to going to work in the mornings. But something spoils my enjoyment totally. After listening to what a person said of their experience in which they quit their job as they felt bogged down by (i assume the language, conduct, whatever) their colleagues, i feel that i shouldn't like my job because obviously i will be dragged down aswell!  There is a lot of swearing, but there is swearing everywhere these days, it's par for the course.  And then this same person is saying that it is better to join a social club than to go to church teaching ET.  I am a very impressionable person and feel that i must have no opinions of my own as they CAN'T be right before God.
Then i get bogged down with the whole spiritual thing and think i just want a simple life after a life of deep thoughts in which i thought i was losing my sanity. 
What is so terrible about mixing with ALL kinds of people and enjoying their company? Does every conversation have to be SPIRITUAL?
This thinking doesn't do anything for my sanity and happiness!
Any thoughts?
Godbless
Nancy

[fe32k]

Hi Nancy,
I am the least qualified person to reply to this, but I definitely know where you are coming from. If I have learned one thing from bible-truths, it is this: Nothing physical can make you more spiritual. Apply this to your life and everything will make sense. You obviously have to work with unbelievers as I am certain Paul did not make tents to and with believers only. Take this verse for example:

2Co 6:14 
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

The two keywords here are fellowship and communion.

fellowship in Greek is:

metochē
met-okh-ay'
From G3348; participation, that is, intercourse: - fellowship.

And communion is:

koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.

So you see, as long as we do not participate or partner with unbelievers. Remember, we are in the world, but we are not of the world. Our citizenship is in heaven, much higher than this carnal world that is ruled by the carnal mind of each and everyone of us. Continue to be happy with where you work because believe me you now account for a very small percentage of the worlds population. Not too many people look forward to their jobs. I hope this is helpful.

GBWY,
Roy

[jER]

 "It is not what goes in that defiles; rather, what comes out."

Therefore, be not like minded with them (i.e. whose language, conduct, etc, is unbecoming to say the least).

Just a short thought on the subject; as an electrician, and from experience in working with ill mannered construction workers.
Many apologize, after they get to know you for their conduct and language. Although, enjoying their company is a matter of taste,
and personally - "I don't drink from their fountain, nor eat the same bread."

"Mixed drinks can be hazardous to you health."

-jER

[Matt]

Hi Nancy,
  This is one topic I DO have extensive knowledge in.  Being a Marine, I had a very hard time dealing with this once I became a Christian.  It has taken some time, but I have been able to re establish myself from a weak follower of the world into a strong and credible person who no longer participates in crudeness (boy, was I good at it).  I am not only able to be around it with out it bothering me, but I no longer tolerate any of the REALLY bad stuff that goes on sometimes, even from my boss'.  I still get 'whispered" about, but it does not bother me anymore.   
  I guess what I am trying to say is "19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. John 15:19"

It may take a little time, but if you are strong and consistent in your beliefs, people will see it!  Most people will understand and avoid being crude around you.  There will always be some who don't care or understand, but you will be surprised, good people will speak out and come to your defense, it happens all the time to me here.
Stay strong!
Matt

[Nancy]

Hi there all,
Thanks for replying.

Roy, i simply don't get this passage! As a friend stated that doesn't sound very christian! Christ Himself mixed and socialised with 'sinners' and unbelievers, so whats' the deal?
You see i married a non-believer and most of my good friends were or are non-believers and in my experience which i cannot find it in me to deny, they have been better people than i have many a time.  One good friend has taught me about forgiveness and tolerance, (through her actions) that i haven't found among 'christians'.
What is one meant to do when meeting people! Ask them if they are believers?  And if not, shun them!

Weren't the 'unbelievers' of whom the Apostle Paul was speaking about pagan? Wasn't he talking to believers in his time who were once pagan aswell.  Just a thought, otherwise these verses don't make much sense to me, as there aren't many believers in Universalism to be friends and partners with!
Godbless
Nancy

[Chris R]

Hi Nancy,

I suppose if the following verse said: Be ye not yoked together with unbelievers, then we must take it to mean, the obvious.

But it Doesn't say that.

It says Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

what exactly does this phrase mean? "unequally yoked"

Why not just say...don't be yoked together with unbelievers?

If the above where true....then what does this verse mean?

If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.[1Cor 7:12]

Or this

And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

Why not?

Because they are NOT unequally yoked. The the Apostle Paul said :For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband.

Peace

Chris R

[Beloved]

All of us are in this world and are encountering all kinds of people.

The only thing that is different is that now we are cognizant of  God's plan. We are also aware of what is needed of us in order to be faithful.

.(Gal 6:9 KJVR)  And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
(Gal 6:10 KJVR)  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith

We do not walk around feeling better than others, we can only judge our own actions, but we are now commanded to be light and salt.

Joh 15:19  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

You can be in the world and yet not of the world ....as long as you do not engage in those activities that you know are wrong (swearing dirty jokes lies etc etc) You just have to be cordial, friendly and nonjudgemental.

(Phi 4:8 KJVR)  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

If you walk in the spirit and are humble and meek then when you are amoung others....you will have expect rejection some times but some of the time you will also be used by God to plant a seed.

Beloved

[hillsbororiver]

Some very good answers here! Doesn't God use all men, all things in this life to teach us patience, longsuffering, etc. Jesus was our example in dealing with others and other than the hypocrites and self righteous He had compassion and empathy in dealing with all of them.

It certainly can be a trial when dealing with the courser and baser folks among us but we really can't be following the Lord if in our heart we look down (not saying anyone here is doing that) on our more unenlightened brothers and sisters. The Pharisees were famous for that.

1Pe 2:21  For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Paul gives us advice here, counselling us on how we should interact with all men, believers and unbelievers alike; 

Rom 12:14  Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Rom 12:15  Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

Rom 12:16  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Rom 12:17  Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Rom 12:18  If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Rom 12:19  Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Rom 12:20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Rom 12:21  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Easy enough? 

No, more like impossible without His Spirit within us, these words are in direct opposition to the natural man but through His Spirit the impossible becomes not only possible but the doable! 

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Lacey23]

To be judgmental is to point out something that is wrong in someone else's life, making the person feel put down, excluded, and marginalized. It's fueled by self righteousness, the misguided inner motivation to make our own life look better by comparing it to the lives of others. So often, when I speak or am sharing with others, its this word, judgmental, that is most often described for a Christian. This had me to evaluate my own life and my own words.

There is someone i love even though i don't approve of what she does. There is someone I accept though some of her thoughts and actions revolt me. There is someone I forgive though she hurts the people I love the most. That person is me. There are plenty of things I do that i don't like, but if i can love myself without approving all I do, I can also love others without approving of all they do. As that truth has been absorbed into my life it has changed the way that I view and communicate with others.

HOw we communicate is just as important as what we communicate. But its not exactly what we communicate that needs to get across. Something that I remind myself is that I am not God nor the Holy Spirit and its not my job to be someone's moral conscience. God says I should love and this is my response, not judgement.

Ah, but what about those moments where we stand our ground in the face of sin and call out the sinner. Of course Christ followers should feel compelled to reject sinful actions and attitudes, Jesus did! Though the "do it yourself" morality train is gaining ranks among most people in my generation, imposing "my religion" on others just doesn't seem right because we christians are described as wanting to prove right than help the person be right with God. Christians feel that if they don't point out God's standards, who will? Could this be telling us we have lost something in the way that we christians articulate and describe God's expectations.... are we more concerned with the unrighteous of others than our own self righteousness?


Scripture makes it clear that we exist only to please God. its not about who knows the most scripture, who condemns the sinner in the group first, who prayers the longest or with the most scripture references, who appears the most holy. I become sick in my stomach with the duplicity and have to beg the pardon of our sweet Lord and excuse myself for some fresh air... only returning sometimes.  Rather than seeing people's potential to be Christ followers, we often set ourselves up as their spiritual judge and jury.


Our judgments on people are usually wrong because they are based on our own biases, assumptions, or stereotypes about others. We don't take time to listen and we are truly too quick to respond to let them know that they are in the wrong on this one. God's judgments are perfect; ours are not.

Here is a good example of this- sitting next to a very spiritual woman, We were reflecting about a place we once both lived. Regarding one particular mall, she shared that she doesn't go there because of all of the area's "rejects" and she didn't want to be around them. I was flooooored. I didn't say anything and acted like I didn't hear what she had just said.  I don't think she recognize her words; judgments creeps up on us and drips out of our conversations and attitudes.


We must ask ourselves this question: Is this person a Christ Follower? Paul informs the 1Corinthians Church that they have no responsibility to judge those outside of faith.

God says everything we do should be to glorify HIM and premised in love. Jesus encounters wrong motivations in John 8 with angry accusers wanting to stone a women. They approach was vindictive and self righteous. Jesus turned their anger back on them and said "if any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (vs 7). Can you imagine... centuries of Jewish teachings and law broken by this Man, Jesus... man what it would to be a fly on stone during that moment-!! He challenged these accusers to choose compassion over retribution by considering the impurity in their own lives before passing judgement on someone else.

Think about this thought: most people outside of the Faith of God think of Christians as hating them because of their sin. In that context, think of that person receiving those words you are sharing with them- anything less of positive will be seen as hate.

Jesus gives a clear example of pursuing people, of accepting people at face value. Often he scandalized others by hanging out with the least desirable people in culture, and his teaching is unambiguous: do not judge others or you'll face the same yardstick; remove the log from your eye before pulling the splinter from your friend's eye; and you do not have the right to condemn others unless you are sinless (see matt 7:1-5). keep that in mind.

Though some will say that Christians are not perfect and do not express Christ perfectly because they are imperfect- this is true, but it misses the point.

Pride fuels judgmental attitudes. Arrogance is perhaps the most socially acceptable form of sin in the church today.

Several make the claim that Romans 1 gives license to judge, but i beg to differ, if one continues reading in chapter 2, Paul says that you (the christian reading) is just as bad and that God has been just as patient if not more for you to get done with your own stuff.

If you feel a growing sense of self justification where you say in your head, "i have the right to be judgmental about sin; thats what God calls me to do"  you may have already missed the chance to have God reveal your blind spots. If people have used the term arrogant to describe you, how do you respond? Maybe those critics are right? Are you softhearted enough to see a clear picture of your motivations Just because you feel as though you are doing the right thing does not mean that you have the right attitudes or motivations towards outsiders.

Arrogance in the Christian community is too frequently accepted or at least excused. We tolerate our own pride; we do not feel God's anger at arrogance. God says he "opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble" (james 4:6). We have to start seeing ourselves and those around us for the people we really are: needy and hurting but the great potential as God's sons and daughters. Maybe then we would reject arrogance as adamantly as we do any other sin, because it is especially corrosive to the faith of Christ followers.

put yourself in their shoes, christians seem only concern about what people do or don't do-- such as whether they go to church or have good behavior. non christians want you to understand some of things that they have suffered and gone through. they believe that christians should learn to appreciate them and better understand their choices.

Be their  friend with no other motives... Don't be friends with them just to go to church or "win them to the lord." be friends with them for the very reason to be friends with them. Friendship ought to be real based on genuine interest in one another.

See others as God sees them- beautiful, wonderful, son (or daughter), loved

[dessa]

Lacey23
Beautiful, beautiful words.  Thanks.
Shalom,
dessa

[Deborah-Leigh]

Lacey 23

Pride fuels judgmental attitudes.

That is so true. As I begin to see the lawlessness in the world and the total hardness of those who care only for themselves, it rigorously tests me to understand that I live among a perverse and corrupt generation as in the days of Noah. This does challenge me to judge if I am being proud minded, holier than thou but then I think no....the disgust, despair, frustration and pain I feel shows me what is going on inside of ME. Then I see ME and the only thing I know then is without Jesus Christ I am wretched as the corruption that turns my stomach, snarls up my feelings and spits me out.

It is truly by Grace then that I can see I need to go to Jesus and prove to HIM that the fuel of my disdain for evil that snares me to resistance, is PRIDE!....Then by Grace I see that I fail, am weak and liable to temptations and He cauaes me to repent.

What a finale to the generation that will see the return of Christ....It will only get darker in this world until He returns.  There is so much wisdom in the teachings of Gods Sovereignty and that all is happening exactly as it should.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[YellowStone]

Hi Lacy,

That is the most precious post that I have read in a long time

You wrote: "Arrogance is perhaps the most socially acceptable form of sin in the church today. " and I could not agree more. Arrogance is fueled by ignorance and ignorance by leaning on ones own understanding in stead of trusting in God and no other.

You spoke of a "very spiritual' woman an how her words denied her. Well I know a very spiritual person who can no longer abide by the hypocracy of the church. Yet I see her as spiritullay complete as any I know. Perhaps not in words, but in fruits of the spirit.

I have said this before, but what better example of the Spirit and it's fruits can be found than the bond shared and cultivated between friends.

Great post.

Love,
Darren

[indianabob]

11/7/2007
Dear Nancy,

You have my sincere sympathy regarding the feelings you experience.  It is good to be appreciated by the customers that you serve and to go home at the end of the day fulfilled and content that you have earned your wages.  If you do feel a little uncomfortable with the swearing and even a little guilty for remaining in that job, perhaps you could begin to search for a similar job with a different set of customers and staff.  You may not find a good alternative immediately, but God is patient and if you pray and meditate on your sincere desire for a positive change in your employment, new opportunities may come your way.

Regarding judgment of other people, it is good to define terms very carefully.  We make judgments every day concerning our diet, the clothing we wear and the people we trust with our children.  Judgment is not wrong.  In fact not making wise judgment and leaving our children in the care of irresponsible people can be a sin.  Visiting a 'supper club' with friends and then allowing yourself to ride home with a drunk driver, can be a sin.  We all have obligations to ourselves and to our family to live carefully and maintain our ability to protect our family.  What kind of parent allows their child to suffer just because a friend wants us to live dangerously?  This is just an example and not about me or you.

Regarding the people that you mix with.  It is not all about happiness, but if it was then perhaps we could find other friends to share our happiness in a safe and responsible manner.  I do recall that it is hard to make new friends when a person moves to a new home or to a new job.  That is why we need to really make friends with our Lord Jesus; he is one we can always trust no matter what choices we may make along the way. Social friends can leave us and disappoint us, but God is dependable.

You are correct in my opinion that every conversation doen't have to be spiritual, even between friends.  We can be very patient with friends who do not understand where the spirit of God is leading us.  The most important consideration is that we are not required to change our friends or even our relatives.  God alone can change people and it is often a mistake to even try to correct friends unless they demand our help. 

Most times when a friend asks about our beliefs it is just human curiousity, nothing more.  Even when they are very nice to us and listen to our explanation of our journey with God, it usually is just being friendly and not a true interest in changing their beliefs or their private lifestyle.  Our task in serving God is to live as an example among our friends and co-workers.  They will see the difference after a few months and some will stop swearing around us while others will not change any of their habits.  This is normal, our job is NOT to change people.  However, we can make righteous judgments and decide that we don't want to continue doing the things we have always done.  We can examine ourselves, our habits and judge that we should change or improve for the better.

Finally, deciding to live God's way and to obey God in our daily lives, is not easy.  It can be quite simple, but not easy.  If it was easy, anyone could do it.  But we know that obeying God requires added strength from God's spirit, it requires drawing close to God so that we can talk with Him and receive counsel from Him through Bible reading, meditation and the quiet voice in our mind that leads us to want to obey.  God's calling is a gift and most people do not receive that calling at this time in their lives.  Why is that?  In my understanding it is because God knows what is best for each individual and how each individual will respond to His calling, but even more than that is it because God is in charge and His will shall be done whether we are ready or not.

My advice would be to just relax and let God work with you as He sees fit.  Don't worry that God is calling you and you do not yet understand.  Giving you understanding is God's responsibility and He will work patiently with you in a manner that is best for you and for His work in the earth at this time.

If I have missed any of your questions please write again.

Thank you for sharing your needs with us, it helps us to grow in grace and fellowship.

Warm regards, indianabob