Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rjsurfs]

Having listened to all the audios from the Mobile conference... and some sections several times I am not understanding something.

In session 6 about 3/4 through - Ray is talking about the all the books of the Bible being put together... he talks of John adding his books... joining them with the other books.

He comes up with a total book count of 49 (7x7 = total completion).  He mentions the King James having 66 books... but I believe I am missing how Ray made the connection.  I have listen to that section of the audios over and over but I'm not hearing it.

Did he make mention of the King James not having the books numbered properly?  I heard him say something about proper numbering... but I missed the explanation.

Can someone who was present at the conference explain this?

Bobby

[Kat]

Hi Bobby,

I will copy that session that is in the notes for you here.  It should help 

SEVEN CANONIZATION PERIODS

1. Moses
2. David and Solomon
3. Isaiah and Hezekial
4. Jeremaih and Joshiah
5. Peter
6. John

The Catholic Church did not canonize the Scripture, nor did the Protestant Church canonize the Scripture - THEY WERE ALREADY CANONIZED BY GOD'S SERVANTS HUNDREDS OF YEARS EARLIER!

What happens if we add the Catholic numbering of 39 books for the Old Testament to the 27 books of the New?  We get 66 - that's man's number.  So in order to avoid such an obvious unsavory number, the Catholic added 11 apocryphal books to their 66 number, bring the total to 77, a more godly number, albeit, not an accurate one.  Such nonsense does not justify the addition of apocryphal books which do not belong to the canon.

There were 22 books in the Hebrew Scripture and 27 books in the Greek Scriptures (22 collected by Peter, and 5 more [Gospel of John and I, II & III John and Revelation]) added by John = 49 or 7 X 7 - Completeness and Perfection!  Not one can be added nor one taken away - WE HAVE THE COMPLETE BIBLE!
-------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rjsurfs]

Thanks Kat!... Although I'm still in the dark...  I don't understand how he is counting... no matter how I count I am coming up with a different number.

I don't have the Apocrypha... but I still have 66... what am i missing?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Bobby

I was not physically present at the conference, yet what I would like to share is my amazement when it was disclosed that The Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel, (The Book of the Kingdom) was ONE book written by Isaiah that are represented as four books in our Bibles. The FOUR books we have being 1 Kings 2 Kings and 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel were ONE Book!

I liked what Ray observed that the mix up of the chronological order messes up our minds! I never knew that Malachi was not the last book of the OT and that Ezra wrote the last books as in Chronicles!

I think this study that Ray shares with us is so vital. If someone messes up the foundation then for several hundreds of years, you can be sure no one will see straight! We live in interesting times don't we!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[ciy]

Bobby
That is amazing how I just listened to that this morning.  I love how God uses numbers, colors, metals, animals, etc to confirm his plan.  
Kat is probably finding it but on one of the the sessions Ray talks about how originally Samuel, Kings, Chronicles were all one book instead of 1st and 2nd.  Nehemiah, Ezra, and one other was one book and the minor prophets were one book which added up to 22 books in the OT and 27 books in the NT.

Good stuff.
CIY

PS - Sorry Arcturus I did not mean to post over you.  I was excited about that session I listened to this morning.

[rjsurfs]

Thanks CIY and Arcturus...  Yes, I remember more clearly now him saying that...

I will have to listen again... and write down exactly which were combined and then a more accurate chronilogical order... maybe on the contents page in my Bible next to the jumbled one the publishers put there.   

My mind just works that way... I need to write stuff down sometimes to understand it.

Thanks all !!

Bobby

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is easy to understand your excitement CIY! God is making the crooked ways straight right before our eyes!

Peace continue with you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Bobby,

Here is a chart from the conference notes.  This was interesting, because I did not understand the order of the Books of the OT.  But you can see here how it is 22 Books of the OT and the 27 of the NT = 49 or 7 X 7 - Completeness and Perfection!


Proper Order Of Old Testament Books

The Law (5 Books)            Date written               By           
1. Genesis                          1274 BC                Moses         
2. Exodus                           1274                    Moses       
3. Leviticus                         1274                    Moses
4. Numbers                         1274 - 1234           Moses
5. Deuteronomy                   1234                     Moses

The Former Prophets (2 Books)
6. Joshua - Judges                1047 - 1007          Samuel                 

7. Book of the Kingdoms           739 - 681            Isaiah
     1 Samuel           
     2 Samuel
     1 Kings
     2 Kings

The Latter Prophets  [Major] (3 Books)
8. Isaiah                                739 -                  Isaiah
9. Jeremiah                             626 - 586           Jeremiah
10. Ezekiel                              591 - 571            Ezekiel

The Latter Prophets [Minor] (All 1 Book)
11. Hosea                                790                  Hosea
      Joel                                  790                   Joel
      Amos                                790                   Amos
      Obadiah                            785                    Obadiah
      Jonah                               785                    Jonah - 3rd person
      Micah                               750                    Micah
      Nahum                              650                    Nahum
      Habakkuk                           630                   Habakkuk
      Zephaniah                          630                   Zephaniah
      Haggai                               520                   Haggai
      Zechariah                           520                   Zechariah
      Malachi                              430                   Malachi

The Psalms [the Poetic Books/the Writings/Statesmen] (3 Books)
12. Psalm                                 1004 - 964          David
13. Proverbs                              964 - 926           Solomon
14. Job                                    2000 - 500 (?)      Job

The Megilloth/The Festival Scroll (5 Books)
15. Song of Solomon                    964 - 926           Solomon
16. Ruth                                    1375 - 1050        Samuel (?)
17. Lamentations                         586...                Jeremiah
18. Ecclesiastes                           964 - 926          Solomon
19. Esther                                   486 - 465          Ezra (?)

Post Exile Books (3 Books)
20. Daniel                                    605 - 535          Daniel
21. Ezra - Nehemiah                      444...                Ezra
22. 1 Chronicles - 2 Chronicles        444...                Ezra

[rjsurfs]

Kat,

Thank you so much !  I really appreciate all the time and work you put into this!

Thank you!!  That is fantastic!

Bobby

[Grateful]

Hi Kat!

WOW, THANK you for that VERY enlightening delineation of the total number of books of our VERY COMPLETE Bible!!!   I never knew that !!   Thank you again!!   

Linda

P.S.  I'm still excited about being able to read the transcript of this just-past Conference of Ray's last weekend, whenever it comes out!  Can't wait!      

[CEO]

Two things:

     For me the numbering (chapter and verse) is mainly important for referring back to scripture and for communicating scripture with others.  I know nothing is random but as long as I get the scripture the numbering is not important to me.  Kat, how can Malachi be the  year 430 on the OT chart and not the most recent OT book?

     Having the scripture as revealed is what matters and therefore the 'spurious verses' are the greatest help to me from the conference.

     All the richness of the nuances, numbering, play on words and etc. that is the bible are something I will apreciate when I attain level 7x7 plus 3x3; I am on a much lower level now.

     Really glad to meet with all at conference and to benefit from Ray's high level of teaching.

                                                Askseeknock
                                                CEO

[Kat]

Hi CEO,

how can Malachi be the  year 430 on the OT chart and not the most recent OT book?

All those dates are BC.  So his would be the most recent OT book.  That would have been just 430 years before the birth of Christ, right.

mercy, peace and love
Kat   

[M_Oliver]

Hi CEO,

how can Malachi be the  year 430 on the OT chart and not the most recent OT book?

I thought the same when I first scrolled down through the list.  Obviously they did not canonize by date.  It appears they used another method...did Ray expalin it, I missed it. 

[Kat]

After looking at the notes this is what I can make out of the order of Malachi.

Malachi is the last to be listed with the minor Prophets, but the minor Prophets are considered one Book.  So it's date of writing is the most recent, that is in that section.
But Ezra is the last Book of the OT. 

Here is a section of conference notes.

EZRA FINALIZED THE CANONIZATION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT:

All other periods of canonization are of little important compared to that of Ezra who made the final decision on all books.  Approximately 444 BC Ezra publicly reads The Law in Jerusalem (Nehemiah 8 & 9), and Nehemiah is renamed Governor of Judah and began re-establishing proper worship (Nehemiah 5:14).

Ezra edited some books to make them more understandable.  Example: Deut. 34:5-12 was added by Ezra (Moses did not record his own death).

Ezra edited numerous books to bring them up to date.  He wrote the book of Ezra, Book of Nehemiah was previously known as II Ezra, and he wrote I & II Chronicles.  He wrote THE LAST BOOKS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[gmik]

Cool.  Just printed your list Kat.  Thanks!

[aqrinc]

Kat,

Belated thanks, for putting this information together; searching for a Pearl and finding it is great.

Hope this is of interest to some members, it is worth knowing this bit of history.

george.

[cjwood]

Kat,

Belated thanks, for putting this information together; searching for a Pearl and finding it is great.

Hope this is of interest to some members, it is worth knowing this bit of history.

george.






hi george,
i found this thread of great interest. it still just blows my mind that NOTHING in the Scriptures, not even the number of books in the bible, is of any coincidence. with God there is no such thing as coincidence. our Father is so awesome that i often find myself just shaking my head in wonderment. another belated thanks to kat for writing it all out for us.

claudia

[aqrinc]

Does make one go Hmmm, doesnt it.

george.

[Nelson]

Hi Folks,

Jesus' words support the first/last order of the OT,

• "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar" (Matt 23.35)

1st 'righteous' person slayed in OT, Abel (Genesis) to last 'righteous' person slayed in OT, Zacharias (2 Chronicles)

• "And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him." (Gen 4:

• "And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and stoned him with stones at the commandment of the king in the court of the house of the LORD" (2 Chr 24:20,21)

All the other 'righteous' ones slain are contained in the scriptures between Genesis and 2 Chronicles when the books are in their 'proper order'.

Just a small note for yous.

Grace and peace to you

Nelson

[aqrinc]

Hi Nelson,

That is a great find, thanks.

These were terrible punishments (Judgement) pronounced on israel; but even here we see another promise of the wicked being saved.

Mat 23: 33-39 (CLV)
33 Serpents! Progeny of vipers! How may you be fleeing from the judging of Gehenna?
34 Therefore, lo! I am dispatching to you prophets and wise men and scribes. Of them, some you will be killing and crucifying, and of them, some you will be scourging in your synagogues and persecuting from city to city,
35 so that on you should be coming all the just blood shed on the earth, from the blood of just Abel until the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murder between the temple and the altar."
36 Verily, I am saying to you: All these things will be arriving on this generation."
37 Jerusalem! Jerusalem! who art killing the prophets and pelting with stones those who have been dispatched to her! How many times do I want to assemble your children in the manner a hen is assembling her brood under her wings-and you will not!"
38 Lo! left is your house to you desolate.
39 For I am saying to you: You may by no means be perceiving Me henceforth, till you should be saying, 'Blessed is He Who is coming in the name of the Lord!"

george.

Hi Folks,

Jesus' words support the first/last order of the OT,

• "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar" (Matt 23.35)

1st 'righteous' person slayed in OT, Abel (Genesis) to last 'righteous' person slayed in OT, Zacharias (2 Chronicles)

• "And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him." (Gen 4:

• "And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and stoned him with stones at the commandment of the king in the court of the house of the LORD" (2 Chr 24:20,21)

All the other 'righteous' ones slain are contained in the scriptures between Genesis and 2 Chronicles when the books are in their 'proper order'.

Just a small note for yous.

Grace and peace to you

Nelson