> General Discussions
Jesus is God?
gott_cha:
And on the other hand,...none of us truly can know,.....yet we will know all things then, and only then......
I hate looking dimly thru a glass.......dont y'all?
indianabob:
Gott cha,
If I recall, god begins to remove the smoke from the glass as we begin to obey.
It's not that God doesn't want us to know spiritual secrets, it's just that he doesn't want to overload our mental circuits with data that we cannot yet handle. First obey in faith and then we begin to hear a still small voice in our conscious mind leading ever so patiently.
Bob
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Gott cha
I believe that The Father is God. The Son is God. The Father is greater than the Son. The Son came from the Father The Father did not come from the Son. The Son will return to the Father all things and will submit Himself also to the Father laying down all that is given to Him by the Father once the Plan of the Father accomplished through the Son is fulfilled. ;D Simple! When not made so confusing by other illusions, deceptions and false teachings like the Trinity deceptive doctrines of man. ::)
Hello War'
I do not think that any one is perfect. Just look. Non are resurrected to judgement yet. For me, the process of perfection is still going on and the judgement day is still up ahead!
If you read the LOF Ray expounds precisely by revelation that this is a fact that I believe is glibly overlooked, ignored and disapproved and outright rejected and disdained by Mystery Babylon via its multitude of false teachings. Either this or they just do not know! :D :)...do not want to know...or both. ;D
Welcome to the Forum!
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
WAR_OF_THE_WORDS:
--- Quote from: gott_cha on November 20, 2007, 11:41:08 AM ---Is Jesus GOD?
He is not the FATHER,..He is from the FATHER,..and is the only begotten son at this time,..He is the first fruits of all creation.......is He GOD? no! He is not the FATHER.
When He prayed in the garden,..did He pray to himself,..or the FATHER?
Also, He told the desciples and the people to worship the FATHER and HIM only
In revelations that great angel, (JESUS) stands before John,..and John falls down to worship Him,....John gets a rebuke and is told not to do that,...worship the FATHER only.
Is Jesus God? in a sense He is,..he is of God and from HIM,..and Was the first being created in the family of GOD,...but He is not the FATHER.
The word GOD is a title,..like a last name if you will,.......If im a jones,..my son is a jones as well,...but he is not the Father,...I am,...but yet he is still a jones.
The doctrine of the trinity,...3 in one yet all the same,was never taught until the councils of the Roman churches in the 300's ad. That can be traced through written church history and the student of the WORD can see where doctrinal herasies entered in on the time line.
The apostles never did, nor Paul ever believe or teach that CHRIST was the FATHER,..they correctly understood HIM to be the First Fruits or the only begotten son whom was sent to do the will of the FATHER,........
Paul even went on to say "that any other Gospel" or teaching brought by them, or even a messenger(angel)was damnable and a curse or anathema.
From "my own" understanding and point of view, If they didnt teach or believe it,...why would I?
--- End quote ---
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9. Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works......................Before Abraham was I am.......
rjsurfs:
At the Nashville Conference Ray talked about unity.
--- Quote ---When we hear of Elohim, El, or Jehovah Elohim, it is as much from the Father as it is Christ. Because they are one.
Jesus Christ is the spokesman for His Father. No matter what Christ says, He is the mouth piece for the Father. He’s not Charley McCartney, He’s not a puppet, but He is the mouth piece for the Father, they are in agreement. I don’t know if the proper phonetics and all that are given to Him by the Father and if He really has no latitude of His own.
But in spirit, the whole thing has to do with spirit and attitude, they are ONE.
So when it says in Acts 5:30 “ The God of our fathers raised up Jesus,” But when we read in the OT, “the God of our fathers” it was Jesus. But what I want to show by that is the scripture themselves, gives us the latitude to recognize that no matter who the person is, whether it be the Father or the Son, it’s always God, ok.
It’s always God.
Even Christ in His humiliation, in His physical form, where He was severely limited as a human being. It may say it’s Jesus Christ speaking, but it doesn’t matter if it says it’s Jesus Christ speaking or the OT it’s Jehovah speaking. We know if someone is speaking it’s NOT the Father. Because He does not speak, except through the Son.
So when Christ said, “I have come to reveal the Father” or in John 1 :18 where John says Christ came to reveal or unfold the Father, it doesn’t necessarily mean that now Christ is going to tell us all about the Father. He’s going to tell us how the Father communicates now and in the pass. All we have to recognize is the Father communicates through the Son.
So when Jesus Christ said, “before Abraham was, I Am” they should have begun to realize, wait a minute are You saying that was You? You talked to Moses?
Now we know that some of the apostles, got it for sure. Paul understood that spiritual Rock was Christ, that is who it was.
Now at the last supper Philip did not know, he just didn’t know. So He said “have I been with you so long, and you ask who the Father is, if You have seen Me you have seen the Father.”
Then He went on in different places to say a number of things, for He said;
“I and the Father are One.” (John 10:30)
“I am in Him and He is in Me, We are One.” (John 17:21)
“The Words I speak, I speak of the Father.” (John 12:50)
--- End quote ---
and
--- Quote ---...but we become one in spirit, one in perfection and one in love. He goes on to say, “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us….. that they may be one, even as We are one, I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one;” (John 17:21-22)
These are some of the reasons you will hearing me say more, everything is one. It all comes down to one thing. There is one God and God is above everything there is. There is one God.
So everything really is ONE. All the other little twos, threes and fours are really of no consequence, compared to the ONE, see. The One, the all.
So we read in Eph., Paul understood this, he didn’t copy it from some other place, he understood it.
Eph 4:1-3 “I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the calling with which you are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit…”
See “the unity of the Spirit” there is the key, we are one in and through SPIRIT.
We are individuals, I have my personality, somebody else has their personality and some don’t have a personality, you know. But we’re all individuals. But we can be all one in spirit, that is what binds us together as one, spirit. So “endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit.”
--- End quote ---
This was a great conference and the transcript can be read at this link: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
However, I believe this topic is best covered in the Trinity paper on the main page at:
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
I could post multiple quotes from it as it is all so good... Ray really breaks it down.
Here is a teaser:
--- Quote ---Will all my readers please note that Jesus DID NOT say "I and the Father, We are one GOD," did He? No, He did not!
Do the Scriptures, however, tell us that there is only ONE GOD? Yes, they do.
Do the Scriptures, tell us WHO that ONE God is? Yes, they do.
Do the Scriptures tell us what the relationship of Jesus Christ is with that ONE God? Yes, they do.
In fact, all of these things are answered in ONE Scripture.
--- End quote ---
You will have to read the paper to find out what that ONE scripture is... along with many others.
Bobby
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version