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Author Topic: Enoch  (Read 5815 times)

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« on: November 17, 2007, 11:08:10 AM »

Hello, Brother Ray, how are you!  May God our Father continue to enlighten your heart with His wondrous love and more deep truths of pure love and may Christ continue to strengthen and form Himself in you as you continue the race to overcome every stronghold of the ememy, Satan, in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Now to the topic and question:  During a discussion, we came upon the subject of Enoch (we could include Elijah as well) of how he walked with God and did not see death but was taken up (translated).  For the sake of those who were not that familiar with the scriptures, it was rather a little disturbing (not in a total bad way)because I was immediately confronted with other scriptures that seemed (on the surface) to contradict the account.  I am not denying that Enoch's story did not happen, but on the surface I was confronted with scriptures like, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who came down..." and scriptures l ike, " in Adam, death came to all men...", and scripture clearly teaches that only Christ has immortality.  The bible tells us very little about Enoch and when it says he was taken up, there's no specific place or location mentioned and it would not do good to add or assume something if it is not clearly mentioned in scripture (or else that would just lead to formations of false doctrines like there are today).  In Hebrews 11: 5, the Enoch account is similarily uninformative.  Maybe you can understand what I am trying to relay a little better with an example from Mark 9, where Christ says to those around Him that some will not taste death UNTIL they see Him come into the kingdom(correct me if I have not stated it properly).  This account clearly says when He comes into His kingdom, some will then taste death. In spiritual terms, I understand that some form of death has to take place in order for us to enter life: We must die to som e thing in order to live to something.  I understand when corruptable shall put on incorruptable that there's some form of death there. There is a death of the earthly and the birth of the spiritual.  All this I understand and when one dies physically, they're not running around in an afterlife somewhere.  I don't want to add or take away from the account of Enoch nor Elijah, but how do you explain their being taken up?  Paul accounts, for example, that he knew of someone caught up to some part of heaven yet he did not know whether it was in the flesh or in spirit.  Please understand that I have nothing against these stories and that's not my point, but on the subject of death and immortality, these accounts carry a lot of weight.  Christ had not manifested and died and rose yet to account for being first to literally be born again of the Spirit and He Himself tasted death for all.  Again, I understand that there has to be a death of th e old to come into the new, but I just need some feedback into this topic of Elijah and Enoch because these literal accounts are different from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.   Brother Ray, on another note, keep up the good work of God and of Christ, and hold on tightly in the Spirit to these wonderful truths, and may God continue to use you to win the world at all costs and reward you for being one of many around the globe who have NOT bowed down to Baal, paganistic Babylon and the false doctrines of Christendom today.  We will NOT condemn anyone except cry out, " Come out of her, my people!" Hallelua! I hope to hear from you, my brother.  Stay grounded and blessed.
Your Brother In Christ,
Brother Ricky

Dear Ricky:  You have to keep your emails shorter and to the point--just ask your question. It is not necessary to explain all of the reasons why you are asking, and what you do understand, etc.  You say that Heb. 11:5 is "uninformative" with relation to Enoch. Actually, Heb. 11 is extremely informative. You must read past verse 5, however.  Also you statement that Enoch was "taken up" is unscriptural. Nowhere do the Scriptures tell us that Enoch was "taken up."  Enoch was translated so that he was not to see death at the location God translated him from. Translated merely mean to be "transported" from one location to another. The same was true for Elijah. He was taken a little more dramatically in a chariot, however, he too was merely transported from one location to another. After this incident, we are told that Elijah wrote a letter (II Chron. 21:12), and assuredly he did not write a letter from God's throne room in heaven.

Likewise, Enoch DIED.  The Scriptures plainly tell us this:   

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Who are the "these" that "all died" in this verse?  Why they are the ones mentioned in the verses above:  Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah.

As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28).  And just when DID they see this?  Answer--next verse: 

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Where they really, actually, literally, in the flesh "talking with Jesus?"  No. Read verse 9:

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

It was all a "VISION."  It happened in their minds, not unlike a dream--it was only a VISION, but in that vision, they really did see Jesus as He will appear "IN HIS KINGDOM).

Hope this helps your understanding. The Scriptures do not contradict their own truths.

God be with you,

« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:11:53 AM by hillsbororiver »
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