Babel An Inverted Pentecost?

[hillsbororiver]

Gen 11:1  And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

Gen 11:2  And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

Gen 11:3  And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.

Gen 11:4  And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

Gen 11:5  And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built.

Gen 11:6  And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Gen 11:7  Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

And then we have this in Acts;

Act 2:1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Act 2:2  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Act 2:3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Act 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:5  And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Act 2:6  Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Quite a contrast between the results of the inspiration of men (in building carnal/heavenly things) versus the Inspiration of God (building spiritual/heavenly things)!

Man seeking heavenly things through his own effort brings confusion and chaos, the Spirit of Christ bestowing heavenly things to mankind brings understanding, peace and Spiritual growth.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[eggi]

That's a wonderful discovery, Joe!

Gen 11:5  And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built.

This is also contrasted with the city of Jerusalem, God's city, coming down from God out of Heaven:

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev 21:2 KJV)

The true city is of God, not of men. We have to take instructions from God when we are building:

Now these are the things wherein Solomon was instructed for the building of the house of God. The length by cubits after the first measure was threescore cubits, and the breadth twenty cubits. (2Ch 3:3 KJV)

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1Co 3:10-11 KJV)

Thank you for sharing what you saw, Joe.

God bless you,
Eirik

[hillsbororiver]

You are welcome Eirik,

Your addition is so true as the difference between Old Jerusalem (decrepitly carnal) and New Jerusalem (Christlike perfection)will be infinitely indescribable!

His Peace to you,

Joe

[fe32k]

good stuff...

This will all be reversed completely when all man is glorified, speaking one language and of one accord and one mind and one spirit giving glory to God with a heavenly language singing heavenly hymns. This will all be amazing. Good find Joe.

GBWY,
Fe

[Gregor]

Greetings Joe,
Very interesting topic. One of the things that drew my attention to Ray's site was his article on speaking in tongues. Before I ever read his expose, I knew there was an obvious error being taught in the pentecostal circles. Ray confirmed what I believed was true, although it felt like I was the only one in the circle at the time who could see it. As I studied more I came across a similar relation between Babel and Pentecost. In the days of Babel (just after the flood), God instructed the people to be fruitful and multiply, and to cover the face of the earth (go out). Instead, they tried to gather all together into one place, in the tower (reaching to the heavens, possibly man's fear-fuelled attempt to save himself in the event of another flood?) Then, before it could be completed, they spoke in different (new to them) tongues (languages) and were scattered over the face of the earth. On the day of pentecost the people gathered together in the upper room, waiting for the promise. When it came upon them, they spoke in different tongues (languages) and soon afterwards, they were sent out (apostles) to all nations. It would seem to be a part of Gods plan that His people inhabit the whole earth, likewise that his Spirit inhabit many people. One becomes many. Does this bear witness or am I confused?
G.

[Deborah-Leigh]

An interesting observation Joe. Thank you.

The  city and the tower that God visited and defeated by confusing the languages, contrasts to the unity of mind upon the teachings of Christ who's city is not earthly but is the towering Spirit of Christ in who's city He builds upon His Truths and Teachings with Christ as foundation and corner stone. With Christ on the Throne in the Temple of God there can be unity with like minded citizens. There is no such unity in Babylon. 

Gregor, the "upper room" for me speaks of Spirit and in Truth   Jesus said the Father was seeking those who worship in this way and for me this points to where the brethren gather with Christ in obedience to Him or in like mind with Him.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[UncleBeau]

Very nice Joe!

your friend,

-Beau

[hillsbororiver]

Thank you all for your responses,

You are very welcome Beau!

Gregor, your synopsis pretty much covers it, below I copied a bit from Ray's (LOF Part 6) http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

Arcturus, you wrote,

"With Christ on the Throne in the Temple of God there can be unity with like minded citizens. There is no such unity in Babylon."

I can only say Amen!


IT ALL BEGAN AT BABEL

This world's counterfeit religious and political systems began at BABEL (Babylon).

"And the whole earth was of one language ... they found a plain in the land of Shinar [Iraq--Babylon] ... And they said, Go to, let us build us a CITY and a tower ... and let us make us a NAME, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the WHOLE EARTH ... And the Lord came down to see the city ... Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language ... So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the FACE OF ALL THE EARTHY..." (Gen. 11:1-9).

God confounded their languages and He scattered them over the face of all the earth, but they took their rebellious, self-centered, godless religion and government WITH THEM.

Have we forgotten how that later mankind once again regrouped under one central government? There was a time in ancient history when officials gather the educated and scholars from around the world, and once again shared philosophies, religions, laws, sciences, and other academia at a central location which they would then once more take back to their respective countries and share, worldwide? And what was that great nation called? That's right, BABYLON! But that great Gold-Headed Kingdom also came crashing down under the Medes and the Persians. Well guess what? Babylon is rising once more. This time God calls it:

"MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5).

Notice that this Great Whore is a "mother of harlots." She is a mother who has harlots for daughters. This is the very same thing that we read in Ezekiel 16: 48,

"As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister has not done, she nor her daughters, as you [Jerusalem] has done, YOU [Jerusalem—a MOTHER] and your DAUGHTERS."

Any woman who has "daughters" is of necessity, a "mother."

Now for a real shocker! From where does God call HIS people? The answer shocked me.

"BABYLON THE GREAT is fallen, is fallen... For ALL NATIONS have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication ... And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come OUT of her, MY PEOPLE that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:2-4)!

Wow! Can you believe it? God calls HIS PEOPLE, HIS SAINTS, HIS ELECT, HIS CHURCH, OUT OF "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"!! That's where the Apostles came from, that's where Paul came from, that's where the small persecuted church down through the ages came from, that where every believer I know came from, and that's where I came from. I, in fact, followed and obeyed several of her harlots in the process of coming out of Babylon. I was no better than the worst of sinners. It is only by God's grace that we are able to escape this system. And God will continue to call His elect out of that very system until He destroys it in His presence.

So clearly, the Mother Whore Jerusalem has HARLOT DAUGHTERS! And of the great religious system spoken of in Revelation 17 we also clearly see that MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, is a Mother Whore of Harlot Daughters! One has to be spiritually blind as a bat to not see that when we compare "Spiritual with spiritual," these two are a "spiritual MATCH!" More proof:

The one True Church of the Living God has a "Father" and a "Mediator—Jesus Christ." But does God's Church have a "Mother?" Ah, Yes, it surely does:

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory [a representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters] for these are the TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS [now a metaphor—'is like, in certain ways'] mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to JERUSALEM which NOW IS [at the time Paul wrote this and continues to this day] and is in BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is ABOVE ["The HEAVENLY JERUSALEM" Heb. 12:22] is free, which is THE MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:22-26).

What amazing Scriptures these are. The New Covenant Church of the Living God has a MOTHER—HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE. And the giant Old Covenant Whore Church also has a mother—EARTHLY JERUSALEM BELOW. The New is FREE, whereas the Old is in BONDAGE. But how can I say that the Old Covenant Church is "huge?" Aren't there only a relatively few orthodox Jews around the world who keep the "Old" Covenant? No, there are BILLIONS of people who keep the "Old" Covenant around the world. There are almost no Christians that understand and keep the "New" Covenant. To the world of Christendom, the Old Covenant IS THE NEW COVENANT! The New Covenant is merely keeping the Old Covenant, BETTER! That's right. To most, the New Covenant consists of keeping the Old Covenant, better. They say that they now keep the Old Covenant "in the spirit." Just how, pray tell, does one keep the "physical" in the "spirit?"

Such a doctrine is utter unscriptural contradictory nonsense. You cannot keep the "physical" in the "spirit." THERE IS NO SPIRIT IN THE PHYSICAL, SO HOW COULD ONE 'KEEP IT' IF IT DOESN'T EXIST? We are all born with a physical [carnal] mind. It is possible to keep physical [carnal] laws with a physical carnal mind (Paul did it to near perfection when he was Saul!). But one CANNOT keep God's spiritual laws with a physical carnal mind!

"Because the carnal [natural physical] mind is enmity [deep seated HATRED] AGAINST God; for it is NOT subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

"For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6).

Let's be sure that we are perfectly clear on these Scriptural facts:

Paul said that there ARE RIGHT NOW, TWO Jerusalem's in existence.

One answers to the New Covenant, which is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE.

One answers to the Old Covenant, which is EARTHLY JERUSALEM IN ISRAEL.

If you think that you can spiritually keep the physical laws of Moses, then your mother is the Old Covenant which answers to "Jerusalem which now is—IN BONDAGE."

But if you are keeping God's spiritual laws through the spirit of God, then your mother is "Heavenly Jerusalem ABOVE which is—FREE."

Of course the fact that Jerusalem is TWICE as wicked and abominable as Sodom does not in any way justify the sins of Sodom. No, God will deal with both Jerusalem and Sodom. And that is the whole point of this discussion. So even though the sins of Jerusalem are twice as abominable as the sins of Sodom, God will, nonetheless, SAVE JERUSALEM! And just when will God save Jerusalem? AT THE SAME TIME THAT HE SAVES SODOM. Yes, Sodom WILL BE SAVED, and she will be saved at the same time that doubly corrupt and abominable Jerusalem will be saved. Now least anyone think that I harbor ill feelings toward Jerusalem for writing these things, let me make it abundantly clear where these things came from. It is GOD, and not I, Who calls Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt, and not only historically, but prophetically as well.

"When your sisters, SODOM and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then THOU [JERUSALEM] and thy daughters shall return to YOUR former estate" (Verse 55).

"Then you shall remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder [Samaria] and your younger [SODOM]: and I will give them [Samaria and Sodom] unto you for daughters, but not by your covenant. And I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall KNOW [for the first time] that I am the Lord: That you may remember, and be confounded, and never open your mouth any more because of your shame, when I am PACIFIED [make atonement, to pardon, to placate, to cover, to condone] TOWARD THEE [Jerusalem AND her sisters, Samaria and Sodom] for all that you have done, saith the Lord God" (Verses 61-63).

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication..." Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED—spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God's spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!

So, is Sodom right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Is Jerusalem of old right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Will Sodom and Jerusalem be saved TOGETHER? YES, in the second resurrection, at the white throne judgment, in the lake of fire. The lake of divine spiritual fire will bring salvation to ALL THE NATIONS! "...but he himself [whomever of the billions of people purged in God's spiritual fire] shall be SAVED; yet so as BY [God's spiritual consuming] FIRE"! (I Cor. 3:15).

Remember that there are two administrations of God's purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment in the lake of God's divine purging fire. All the children of the bondwoman, the Old Covenant, the Mother Whore with her harlot daughters, will one day be the children of Heavenly Jerusalem Above, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL!

God truly is NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS. GOD IS ABLE TO BRING ANY PERSON TO REPENTANCE. How could anyone deny it? There is no such thing as a person being so evil that he cannot be converted by the spirit of God. But God has a timetable, and He will follow that timetable. There is great wisdom in what God does and how He does it and when He does it and to whom He does.

If you have never experienced COMING OUT of Babylon the Great, then maybe you are being called to respond to God's plea: "Come OUT of her MY PEOPLE." It is a great and wonderful thing to be called by God at this time to be prepared as the very SONS OF THE LIVING GOD to bring salvation to the rest of the world and the entirety of the universe!

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[JohnGA]

Folks, this post is one of those that help to seriously reaffirm to me that my stumbling upon Ray's writings was no accident.  Praise God!

In the earlier years of my walk with the Lord I recall thinking to myself on many an occasion that there was something obviously errant in the interpretation of Acts 2 (Day of Pentecost) and Corinthians discussion around Tongues.  Unfortunately, the circles that I was in at the time (charismatic - pentecostal), did not afford opportunity for truly open dialogue around this issue.  Even to this day this particular issue would cause a major commotion within my own household as my wife is a very staunch believer in the doctrine of tongues (raised COGIC).  This has bothered me for years and then one day while meditating on the issue the Lord spoke to me about the comparison between Babel and Pentecost and how the two events were direct opposites orchestrated by the Lord himself to get what he had initially commanded of and desired for his children.  But it always amazed me and still does that what is so clearly written and interpreted from our bible so many refuse to see.

Thanks my brothers and sisters for helping me to see that I was not off in my understanding.  I admit that I have many a ways to go in my learning but I believe I am in the right place.  I only pray that one day my wife will be able to see what God is helping me to see clearer and clearer each day.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thank you for your testimony JohnGA and if I have not already welcomed you to the Forum well WELCOME!

As the head of your wife YOU have the eyes...you know...the head has the eyes.

My husband has the heart in my case and he has the inner eyes too and he lays down his life for me which is so precious.

Have you read Ray's teaching on Tongues yet? After I read that I cried bitterly because I had been a tongue babbling hypocrite for which I had to repent bitterly which blessedly I was afforded to do through the Mercy and Grace of Christ and God.

Here is the link in case you have not seen it yet. http://bible-truths.com/tongues.htm I would advise that this teaching is not something to wave in the face of your wife but it is something to integrate, comprehend and assimilate first before trying to lead or teach or convince anyone else. Leading teaching convincing is done through example not debate or argument and this is in line with preserving the bond of peace!

Peace be to you

Arcturus