> General Discussions
God is creating (present) man in His image?
lilitalienboi16:
Im a baby in all this, but i can certainly see the errors in Lightseekers post. Not blaming Him for them, but someone needs to Show Him where there is an error.
JOB 14:10 But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? 11 As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, 12 So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their SLEEP. 13 Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, that You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, that You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, till my change comes. (NKJV)
ECCLESIASTES 9:2 All share a common destiny--the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. As it is with the good man, so with the sinner; as it is with those who take oaths, so with those who are afraid to take them. 3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope--even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. (NIV)
PSALM 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence; (NASB)
When a MAN DIES, HIS SPIRIT DEPARTS. His thoughts THEY PERISH. Why do they perish? Because man is a LIVING SOUL. When man dies, HE IS A DEAD SOUL. That breath of life given to Him is GONE. His SPIRIT DEPARTS. IF you want to look at the Breath of life as the SPIRIT giving part then think of DEATH as the TAKING AWAY PART of it.
PSALM 146:3 Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (NASB)
When you die, you do not Descend into heaven, or hell, yada yada yada, you SLEEP.
ACTS 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens" . . . (NKJV)
About the Trinity thing, its completely false.
"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).
Where or how did Jesus come about into existence?
"...I [Jesus] came OUT from God. I CAME OUT FROM the FATHER..." (John 16:27-28).
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
Jesus plainly tells:
"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
So who exactly is Jesus in relationship to God?
Who [Jesus Christ] is the Image of the invisible God, FIRSTBORN of every creature, for in Him is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created THROUGH Him and FOR Him, and He is BEFORE all, and all has its cohesion in Him" (Col. 14-17).
"Now I want you to be aware that the Head of every man is Christ, yet the head of the woman is the man, yet the Head of Christ IS GOD" (I Cor. 11:3).
Jesus One day will subject HIMSELF to GOD THE FATHER.
"Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself [Jesus Christ] also SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM [God the Father] Who subjects all to Him, that GOD may be All in all"
So as you can see, Jesus is Clearly of God, but the best way to Explain Jesus is with these Scriptures, and i always looked at Him as the way Ray put it.
Man and Women cleave to eachother and become ONE FLESH. So is God the Father and Jesus ONE in this same thought. To expound on this, i believe Ray says that Jesus has a GOD, but GOD THE FATHER DOES NOT. Still with all thsi there is no THIRD BEING to God the Father. There is only CHRIST JESUS. Who is the "IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD."
I did my best with what little Knoweldge God has bestowed me with, I hope it helps however small that help might be.
God bless :)
Lightseeker:
lilitalienboi16
Let me preface this by saying what I think a man is:
spirit: (masculine in gender) the animating life force of a man.
soul: (feminine in gender), the motivating life force of a man (mind, will, emotions).
body: male or female, the mobile home that spirit, soul indwell.
Man is three and salvation is three. A spirit must be justified a soul must be sanctified and a body must be glorified. The spirit is saved by His death on the cross. The soul is saved (worked out) by dying to self (our mind, will, emotion) putting on His mind/soul eg. the mind of Christ, with resurrection life. In doing so we once again become a living soul in that yielded area of our life. And the body will receive glory based upon how much of the soul was renewed. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
--- Quote ---JOB 14:10 But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? 11 As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, 12 So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their SLEEP. 13 Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, that You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, that You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, till my change comes. (NKJV)
--- End quote ---
Read your Job quote carefully. What is laid in the grave? A man (singular, not mankind). So does that mean a man isn't also a spirit? Does not the man of dust return to dust, and does not the spirit of man return to God?
So what sleeps in Sheol/Hades/grave until the day of judgment, is it the soul? Seventh Day Adventists teach something about soul sleep. I honestly don't know for sure.
--- Quote ---PSALM 146:3 Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he (the dust) returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts (soul) perish. (NASB) [/color]
--- End quote ---
His spirit departs....where to...the Father from whence it came. He returns to the earth...He who?...the body. His thoughts (soul mind will emotions) perish...His thoughts...but what about those thoughts that are of God. Thoughts which will remain for the day of rewards where our reward is based upon conforming our mind to His mind. I believe soul sleep may have some merit. But as I said earlier I'm not sure. The fact that the soul that sins it shall die is scriptural. Wonder why it didn't say he will die? The grave is a judgment of God for both the 'bodyof sin' and the still 'rebellious soul' (those parts not yet yielded in this life).
--- Quote ---ACTS 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens" . . . (NKJV)
About the Trinity thing, its completely false.
--- End quote ---
I'm not as sure as you are. That's why I keep asking the questions I do. And awaiting answers I never get.
Is a man...a spirit, soul and body like 1Thes 5:23 says or not? Is that not sort of a triune being? If not, please explain.
sparkyman481:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker ---
Is a man...a spirit, soul and body like 1Thes 5:23 says or not? Is that not sort of a triune being? If not, please explain.
--- End quote ---
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hello Lightseeker,
I am getting into this conversation late. Hope I am not intruding.This is how I see what you asked about.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Without the breath of life the soul cannot live. I believe the combination of body and God's Spirit is what combines to make a living soul.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Rom 8:9-10 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Ecc 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
(1 Corinthians 6:17) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
(1 Corinthians 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(Ephesians 4:4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
(Philippians 1:27) Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Christ is the man and the Spirit that is one. Only through Christ do we attain life. He is our Creator only he can give us the Spirit that is needed for life. There is only ONE life not three.
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker ---lilitalienboi16
Let me preface this by saying what I think a man is:
spirit: (masculine in gender) the animating life force of a man.
soul: (feminine in gender), the motivating life force of a man (mind, will, emotions).
body: male or female, the mobile home that spirit, soul indwell.
Man is three and salvation is three. A spirit must be justified a soul must be sanctified and a body must be glorified. The spirit is saved by His death on the cross. The soul is saved (worked out) by dying to self (our mind, will, emotion) putting on His mind/soul eg. the mind of Christ, with resurrection life. In doing so we once again become a living soul in that yielded area of our life. And the body will receive glory based upon how much of the soul was renewed. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
--- Quote ---JOB 14:10 But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? 11 As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, 12 So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their SLEEP. 13 Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, that You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, that You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, till my change comes. (NKJV)
--- End quote ---
Read your Job quote carefully. What is laid in the grave? A man (singular, not mankind). So does that mean a man isn't also a spirit? Does not the man of dust return to dust, and does not the spirit of man return to God?
So what sleeps in Sheol/Hades/grave until the day of judgment, is it the soul? Seventh Day Adventists teach something about soul sleep. I honestly don't know for sure.
--- Quote ---PSALM 146:3 Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he (the dust) returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts (soul) perish. (NASB) [/color]
--- End quote ---
His spirit departs....where to...the Father from whence it came. He returns to the earth...He who?...the body. His thoughts (soul mind will emotions) perish...His thoughts...but what about those thoughts that are of God. Thoughts which will remain for the day of rewards where our reward is based upon conforming our mind to His mind. I believe soul sleep may have some merit. But as I said earlier I'm not sure. The fact that the soul that sins it shall die is scriptural. Wonder why it didn't say he will die? The grave is a judgment of God for both the 'bodyof sin' and the still 'rebellious soul' (those parts not yet yielded in this life).
--- Quote ---ACTS 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens" . . . (NKJV)
About the Trinity thing, its completely false.
--- End quote ---
I'm not as sure as you are. That's why I keep asking the questions I do. And awaiting answers I never get.
Is a man...a spirit, soul and body like 1Thes 5:23 says or not? Is that not sort of a triune being? If not, please explain.
--- End quote ---
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave [sheol], whither thou goest" (Ecc 9:10, KJV).
Lightseeker:
sparkyman481
--- Quote ---Hello Lightseeker,
I am getting into this conversation late. Hope I am not intruding.This is how I see what you asked about.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Without the breath of life the soul cannot live. I believe the combination of body and God's Spirit is what combines to make a living soul.
--- End quote ---
Not intruding at all on my part. I have a question for you based on the above. We've, in part, been discussing man being made in the image of God and the trinity doctrine. Based upon your above post you seem to be saying that man isn't triparte but biparte (combination of spirit and body). So if that's the case are you saying God and man isn't a trinity but a duality.
--- Quote ---Christ is the man and the Spirit that is one. Only through Christ do we attain life. He is our Creator only he can give us the Spirit that is needed for life. There is only ONE life not three.
--- End quote ---
But in the above quote you now say ONE life. I agree there is only one life, but is a person, and Christ, just a spirit? How do the following verses fit your position?
LUK 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
HEB 2:17 Wherefore in all things/Pas it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren
3956 pas: all, any, every, the whole
Nightmare
--- Quote ---"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave [sheol], whither thou goest" (Ecc 9:10, KJV).
--- End quote ---
I feel like Joshua when he didn't know whose side the angel of the Lord was on. The angel just said nay. I could take your posted verse as another one supporting my position...but I don't know if that's what you intended. :?
I was really hoping for more from you concerning some of my questions earlier. I don't mean that as a cut. I know the posts are too long and other interests compete here for your imput. Thanks anyway.
Maybe this thread is reaching a frazzle and coming to an end. 8)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version