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[GODSown1]

Hey!! all ma Knowledgable brothers & sisters  ,
       Longtime! No Speak!  , Well I was jus wondering if Ray has done a Study on "The bottomless pit"?, Az far az I no I dont think so. Well n e wayz, I was @ breakfast da uda dae & the bottomless pit came 2 mind, & I thort hmm.. if der is such a place literally den if one is placed in it, they would surely starve 2 death,  Right!?, But! den I thort nope I reckon its got 2 b a symbol of sumfing in sumway, SO ma question is 2 All, "Wot is The bottomless pit"??. I sort of in my understanding thru wot little study I hav done on dis hea Subject, The bottomless pit is Only mentioned 7 times in da Bible (I stand 2 b corrected)  , um! 5 of dem having one meaning & da uda 2 having anuda meaning (Again, I stand 2 b Corrected)  , Well Im startn 2 Feel within, d@ it Basically is a Feeln Deep withn, az like "The Temple of GOD" bein withn, (Once again I stand 2 b Corrected)  , Well ill leave dis up 2 da Xsperts I reckon, I would so! Love 2 hear Wot ma such! knowledgeable brothers & sisters of dis hea BT Forum have 2 share.. GOD Bless U All & may our FATHER bring Great! understanding on dis hea subject, GODS Peace 2 All..
        much muchLOVE!! Pera

Ps. WoW! its been awhile since Ive had a Question cum 2 mind  , GOD is surely! GOOD!. Oh! & Plez! 4give me if Ray has spoken about dis.. muuaaahhhh!!!!!

[Gregor]

I think the bottomless pit is symbolic and refers to the fullness of depravity, the unlimited or uninhibited potential for sin in man and the unsatiable desire to sin? It can never be filled or satisfied, just like a bottomless pit. The deeper in you go, the darker it gets.

[Sorin]

Gregor, I think you might be right.

[Chris R]

Hi ,

I have read in Rays writings about the bottomless pit, The words alone make absolutley no sence.

You cannot have a "pit" without a bottom, its like square circles, and Hot ice.

The translation is more in the lines of "submerged chaos", there is No such thing as a bottomless pit.


Chris R

[GODSown1]

lol!  WoW!,
                  I didnt even look @ it like d@ Chris R, dis is Y I asked in dis Forum Awesum! stuff. Chris R, "Would U know wher I could read Rays writingz On "The bottomless pit"?.  Thanks d@ was Short & Sharp! & Good! Thanks. Gregor & Sorin, Thanks 4 ur answers, I actually know wot uZ r talkn about az well, I believe! We will get 2 da 'Bottom' of it tho   ,, in GODS Time of coz.. Praise! HIS Mighty! name..
                    muchLOVE!! Pera

[Gregor]

I can't remember where I read it, but I believe Ray said a bottomless pit would be a tube. However, the term is an oxymoron. Take drug use for example: "one is too many, and a thousand never enough" is a common slogan for the alcoholic not to take that first drink. When someone says, "I hit rock bottom" it implies there is no further that they can fall, but in reality, there is always something worse that could happen - hence "bottomless". And the "pit" refers to a trap used to catch wild beasts, ie man without knowledge/understanding, without the spirit of God. Thankfully our Savior's reach is without limit, able to pull us back out of that "bottomless pit" we've all found ourselves in. Technically, if one dug a pit to the center of the earth, that would qualify as a bottomless pit. A black hole in space could also qualify as a bottomless pit. Sometimes we just need to think outside the box.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I like "submerged chaos" Thanks Chris R!

There are many who live in a "bottomless pit"

Many live life behind a mask or hypocrisy that says I am okay and they are far from it. Social norms teach us smile and the world smiles with you and cry and you cry alone.....In other words, we are all indoctrinated to show a false front.....This is the worlds teaching from the bottomless pit! 

Come out of Her is the call to leave Babylon but also to get out of submerged, unrecognised chaos!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[rjsurfs]

Hi Chris...

Thanks for that... it is mentioned in the paper to John Hagee...

First of all, "bottomless pit" is an absurd translation. There is no such thing, and could never be. It's like cold fire and square circles. It doesn't equate. It's an impossibility. Secondly, you take the ridiculous phrase "bottomless pit" and turn it into "The bottomless pit of eternity." Why do you do things like this? Do you just like the way these things roll off your tongue?

A proper translation of Rev. 9:2 is:...

The proper trainslation and more is within the paper at this link:
http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm

Bobby

[Gregor]

Bobby,
Thanks for the link. Along with what you quoted, this is the only other part concerning the "bottomless pit" from the link you provided:

First of all, "bottomless pit" is an absurd translation. There is no such thing, and could never be. It's like cold fire and square circles. It doesn't equate. It's an impossibility. Secondly, you take the ridiculous phrase "bottomless pit" and turn it into "The bottomless pit of eternity." Why do you do things like this? Do you just like the way these things roll off your tongue?

A proper translation of Rev. 9:2 is: "And to him was given the key of the well of the submerged chaos." There is nothing bottomless about it. This place is not called "hell." There are no people there. There are locusts and demons here.

I think "well of the submerged chaos" could mean the same things as I've posted earlier. In any case, if you or anyone else knows of anywhere else that Ray teaches on the meaning of "well of the submerged chaos" I'd be interested to know. Thanks.
G.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Gregor

.....There are locusts and demons in your quote from Ray. Sounds like Babylon! We know who's throne is found there. Satan's! So it makes sense to me to see Mystery Babylon as this so called "bottomless pit" or better translated submerged chaos!   I believe that the entire LOF series is a discernment showing, refuting and exposing the heresies and false teachings of Harlot Babylon.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Gregor]

Greetings Arcturus,
I can agree with you, especially since this quote is directed to John Hagee. Submerged chaos certainly contrasts the higher standard, higher calling of the elect.

Mr. Hagee, read Paul's epistles and notice that those under Grace are held to a much higher  standard of conduct and morality than those who put themselves under law. Paul instructs Titus to set standards of morality for elders in the church that are far higher than what was expected of law-keeping Israelites. How many law-keeping clergymen do you think would qualify according to Titus 1:9: " ... able to entreat with sound teaching as well as to expose those who contradict." Much of today's Christian teachings are so unsound and unscriptural that they do nothing but contradict.

And from the LOF-XI

In Hebrews 10:25 were are admonished as follows:

    "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."

That this is speaking of believers congregating together to worship and study God’s Word, there can be no doubt. However, there is a much deeper meaning to this "assembling" that few have ever seen. I never saw it myself until I read a paper by J. Preston Eby, entitled: "FORSAKE NOT THE ASSEMBLING."

I will quote an excerpt or two from his paper:

    "The Greek word for ‘assembling’ is EPISUNAGOGE. The word, literally, is a verb meaning to synagogue. It is a compound of the Greek prefix EPI with the word SUNAGOGE from which we get our transliterated English word Synagogue. EPI means super – imposition – that which is above, higher than, highest, upon. SUNAGOGE means a meeting, assembly, or gathering. Putting these two words together, EPI-SUNAGOGE means THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS!

    It bespeaks of something far greater than merely collecting so many breathing bodies together in one place.

    It is a meeting in a higher realm, on a higher plane, in the high places of the Spirit, and in the heights of Truth. It is a gathering together in a dimension above. It indicates an assembling IN THE SPIRIT…"

(All Caps belong to Mr. Eby).

This Greek word episunagoge is used only one other time in Scripture, and that is in II Thes. 2:1:

    "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together [Gk: episunagoge] unto Him."

In Hebrews 10 we are admonished to "assemble" in an high meeting, a meeting in the SPIRIT! In II Thes. 2 this meeting in the Spirit will become a literal meeting with our Lord.

And so, back to our question once more: Which denomination should we join? Where should we go to Church? Where should we "forsake not the assembling of ourselves together?" In a physical building of some physical denomination? No. WE are to episunagoge (assemble) on a higher plane, in a higher realm, in a spiritual assembly, IN THE SPIRIT!

Peace.
G.

[Gregor]

As for the earth, it came to be a chaos and vacant, and darkness was over the surface of the submerged chaos (or abyss). And the Spirit of Elohim was vibrating over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)

Taken from the Concordant Version of Genesis (revised)

Same reference to "submerged chaos" but definately not in reference to the synogogues of satan. Any thoughts?

[jER]

Any thoughts?

Perhaps, we should consider what may have taken place between Genesis 1:1 and that of verse three, where darkness was upon the earth and it was without form? The earth may well be older than that which is taught in the churches:

"....there were heavens of old, and an earth cohering out of water and through water,
by the word of God; through which the then world, being deluged by water, perished" (2 Peter 3: 5-6)

And, this disruption which is assumed by the churches to be the flood of Noah’s time, may indeed be a reference to :

"Flow together shall the water from under the heavens to one place, and appear shall
the dry land" (Genesis 1:9)

If the Lord created the earth from the beginning, not submerged in chaos, than He caused it to take place. Why? And, why did death and sin enter the world?

"for Thou lovest Me before the disruption of the world" (John 17:24-25)

"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:3-4)

"...the precious blood of Christ, as of a flawless and unspotted lamb,
foreknown, indeed, before the disruption of the world..." (1 Peter 1:19-21)

…that your faith and hope, be in God.

Therefore, "we should be brought on to maturity…" not disrupting, again - the foundation of
repentance from dead works.... (Hebrews 6:1)

"For we are cast down, but not destroyed" (2 Corinthians 4:9)

Just another thought:  No greater love, than One lay his life down for another, and considering that All creation will come to this knowledge, than perhaps the angels who were created immortal will also be given this understanding – through us.

JER

[UncleBeau]

Just another thought:  No greater love, than One lay his life down for another, and considering that All creation will come to this knowledge, than perhaps the angels who were created immortal will also be given this understanding – through us.

JER

1 Timothy 6:15-17 (King James Version)

    15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Let's not forget the scriptures

your friend,
-Beau

[jER]

Hello Uncle…B,

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


Indeed, let us not forget the Scriptures:   

"which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate (He who rules unconstrained by law; Sovereign, ruler) will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality (perpetual life, after death), making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving (not comprehended through the senses of man), to Whom be honor and might eonian. Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15-17; The Concordant Literal New Testament).

The verses below are interesting, to say the least:

"Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and perceive (comprehend), for a spirit has not flesh and bones according as you behold Me having." (Luke 24:39)

The celestials (or heavenlies), often referred to as the Spirit realm, is full of spirit beings that are termed; messengers and sons of God that translate as angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; Matthew 26:53; Revelation 5:11).

All true believers, who overcome in Christ are termed Sons of God because of their special place in the Kingdom, due to the fact that they have been begotten through the Spirit of God and have become part of a New Creation (Galatians 3:26-29; 1 John 3:1; Ephesians 1:5; Romans 8:19). Even Adam was called a son of God (Luke 3:38).

It appears that these are in reference to all those who have been created by God, to reflect His character and authority, thus, they are called, "His sons."

Although, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God; the Firstborn Son.

Now, Jesus said, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God. For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

Angels apparently, do not marry…

"Yet those deemed worthy to happen upon that eon and the resurrection from among the dead are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage. For neither can they still be dying, for they are equal to messengers, and are the sons of God, being sons of the resurrection." (Luke 20:35-36)

"For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;" (2 Peter 2:4)

"Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day." (Jude 6)

This passage in Jude is very revealing and clearly states that some rebellious spirits had abandoned their (God) given position in the celestials, or heavenly bodies, and seem to still be living, pending judgment. Perhaps, they will face the second death, as will that old serpent – the devil. They cannot face the first death because they are spirit – not flesh and blood.

It would seem that "Non-mortals" are immune to the physical death, and the current aspects of mortality, as they are spirit. Therefore, to put on immortality would consist of dying in the physical, transcending the mortal shell, or flesh - to the Spiritual.

 "To put on immortality; one has to die while one is still alive." As for the carnal - fleshly mind, anyways!

A friend in Christ,
JER

[Deborah-Leigh]

These two scriptures came to my mind after reading jER's post.

1 Cor 15:31 I assure your by the pride which I have in you in your fellowship and union with Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily, I face death every day and die to self.

Psalms 32:5 I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I did not hide, I said, I will confess my transgressions to the Lord continually unfolding the past till all is told.

This reminds me of the teaching on Repentance that for me fits this study and thread. Here is the link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

Quote : I want us to see why we really need to repent, and see just how serious it is in God’s sight.
I know God will eventually take everybody to be where they need to go, but sometimes God accelerates things, by the foolishness of preaching.  And that’s what I am doing.  And maybe your going to see something here that you never conceived of before.
That is if you break one point of His law, and we’re not talking about the spiritual law here, you know how Christ made the law so much high that Moses law.  One says don’t commit this sin, Christ said don’t even think it, ok.  Much higher law.  If you break one point, your GUILIY of all.  Back to Romans.

Rom. 2:1 “Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.”

How can Paul say that everybody in here is a child molester and a murderer.  How can he say that?  Because if you break one point of the law you’re guilty of all.

I see this as being that it is not just our own personal past that must unfold,(I am okay Jack kind of mentality) but the past of the beast has to unfold and every secret be bared before Gods  correcting consuming fire of His Spirit. This has already begun in some lives in judgement on the house of God now,  and  it will begin in the resurrection for many others. Ref http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html JUDGMENT BY FIRE MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD

Peace to you

Arcturus