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Author Topic: Prophets are just people, the bible says so.  (Read 10274 times)

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rvhill

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Prophets are just people, the bible says so.
« on: November 21, 2007, 05:10:28 PM »

If you look at the old Testament you have almost every prophet were sinning, and at least all the 'great' prophets were sinning..

Abraham who laugh at God. Genesis 17:17 Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, "Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?" he also was the cause of the problem with Muslims by not believing God would do what he said he would do.

Moses was forbidden to Cross the Jordan because of his sins. Deuteronomy 3:23 At that time I pleaded with the LORD : 24 "O Sovereign LORD, you have begun to show to your servant your greatness and your strong hand. For what god is there in heaven or on earth who can do the deeds and mighty works you do? 25 Let me go over and see the good land beyond the Jordan—that fine hill country and Lebanon."  26 But because of you the LORD was angry with me and would not listen to me. "That is enough," the LORD said. "Do not speak to me anymore about this matter.
 
Samson and David sins would take pages and pages just list.

Solomon's problem with Women, and his Idolatry. Amos 5:26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king, the pedestal of your idols, the star of your god [ Or lifted up Sakkuth your king / and Kaiwan your idols, / your star-gods ; Septuagint lifted up the shrine of Molech / and the star of your god Rephan, / their idols ] — which you made for yourselves.

Elijah  and the youths.  2 Kings 2:24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

It a long list and by now you should be getting the ideal if you did not already know this. Then we have what Jesus said about the Prophets.

 Of John Jesus said, Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.  But Jesus also said this, Matthew 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said this of prophets in general. 
   John 10:1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

    7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

    11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

    14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

So, why would anyone want to fallow a Prophet? Why do some so called Christians insist on calling their religious leader a Prophet? I believe those Christians who do call their religious leader a prophet mean Messiah. They hope that if they do not use the word messiah then God will never know their sin. So what do you think of Prophets, and the people who fallow them?



okay, I took out the scum of the earth part in the title, because it seem to have made to many people uncomfortable.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 10:42:57 PM by rvhill »
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UncleBeau

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 05:23:43 PM »

You say that these verses speak about prophets?

Mark 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 05:49:41 PM »

My point is that the Prophets are only human and were no better or worse then any one else. Jesus is the Word of God Jesus practiced and teached the commandments. this why he will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. The Prophets are those who broke the least of these commandments and teached others to do the same. What is a prophet anyways?
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2007, 06:08:19 PM »

Also are not Prophets human? What does it mean to be human. Are we not of this world, earth, and are we not all scum?

Romans 3:12
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." [ Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20]

So is it not safe to say that all prophets are scum of the earth?
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Craig

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2007, 06:08:44 PM »

Prophets were human spokesmen of God.

Where does it say in scripture that Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. are prophets?

Craig
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2007, 06:53:32 PM »

 Hebrews 11

 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

 10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

 12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

 13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

 15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

 16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

 20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

 21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

 22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

 23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

 24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

 25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

 26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

 28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

 29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

 31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

 34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

 35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

 39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 We have been fortunate (to say the least) to be under the New Covenant rather than the Old Covenant, the OT "men of old" are no worse than the rest of us beasts but we have the Spirit of Christ within us to overcome this beast, they did not.

I believe there are way more spiritual truths in the lives of these ancients than meets the eye,

Peace,

Joe

P.S. I have not yet seen or heard of any of today's self proclaimed "prophets" have any truth to share or proclaim!
   
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rjsurfs

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2007, 07:29:15 PM »

Hi all,

When I recently read through the Mobile conference I was really struck by what Ray had to say about prophets...

Quote
Luke 24:27  And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself (being the Messiah).

Well many of the Scripture that pertain to Jesus Christ being the Messiah were found in the Psalms.  Well guess what?  They are prophecy!  So we have a whole circle here of ideas, that all go together, because psalms can be prophecy.  When He talked about, He showed me all the Scriptures of Christ being the Messiah, according to the Prophets, surely He showed him some of the Psalms.  In fact most of the important places where we read about Christ is the Messiah, is in the Psalms.  Then of course in a few places, Isaiah 53 and a few others places.  But mostly in the Psalms.  The Psalms are prophesies, they are considered prophets. 

So Luke says any Scripture that pertaining to Christ, are written by prophets.  That has to be Psalms, so Psalms are prophecy.  When Asaph sang the 50th Psalms it’s called a prophecy. 

II Tim. 3:16  “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…” 

ALL Scripture, okay.
One of the definitions of prophecy or prophesying is inspired teaching, singing and writing, it’s prophesying.   If it is inspired, it’s prophesying.  Prophesying does not mean solely predicting the future.  Any inspired teaching, singing or writing is prophesying.

But, that being said... I'm not sure what the question really is in this thread. 

RVHILL, you quoted Romans 3:12
Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


But why do we follow any man?  If that is the question I would say we shouldn't.  Jesus said "Follow me" on many occasions.  I listen and learn from many... and in regards to this forum I listen to what Ray has to say... and my life has changed with the truths he has brought forth... all through God's will and doing.  However, my intent is to only follow the Christ... I think to follow a man in that regard is sin.

Bobby
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2007, 07:49:57 PM »

The one thing that came to my mind when i read the thread title was that,

'The bible says alot of things, but that doesn't make them true.'

Only God's Word is Truth =]

God bless,

Alex
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2007, 10:10:38 PM »

Hi all,

When I recently read through the Mobile conference I was really struck by what Ray had to say about prophets...

Quote
Luke 24:27  And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself (being the Messiah).

Well many of the Scripture that pertain to Jesus Christ being the Messiah were found in the Psalms.  Well guess what?  They are prophecy!  So we have a whole circle here of ideas, that all go together, because psalms can be prophecy.  When He talked about, He showed me all the Scriptures of Christ being the Messiah, according to the Prophets, surely He showed him some of the Psalms.  In fact most of the important places where we read about Christ is the Messiah, is in the Psalms.  Then of course in a few places, Isaiah 53 and a few others places.  But mostly in the Psalms.  The Psalms are prophesies, they are considered prophets. 

So Luke says any Scripture that pertaining to Christ, are written by prophets.  That has to be Psalms, so Psalms are prophecy.  When Asaph sang the 50th Psalms it’s called a prophecy. 

II Tim. 3:16  “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…” 

ALL Scripture, okay.
One of the definitions of prophecy or prophesying is inspired teaching, singing and writing, it’s prophesying.   If it is inspired, it’s prophesying.  Prophesying does not mean solely predicting the future.  Any inspired teaching, singing or writing is prophesying.

But, that being said... I'm not sure what the question really is in this thread. 

RVHILL, you quoted Romans 3:12
Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


But why do we follow any man?  If that is the question I would say we shouldn't.  Jesus said "Follow me" on many occasions.  I listen and learn from many... and in regards to this forum I listen to what Ray has to say... and my life has changed with the truths he has brought forth... all through God's will and doing.  However, my intent is to only follow the Christ... I think to follow a man in that regard is sin.

Bobby

You are getting it I think.

Divisions in the Church
    1 Corinthians 1:10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[a]"; still another, "I follow Christ."
    13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

People seem to think that the prophets were all that and a bag of chips, but if they were then why did Jesus have to come? I believe that Jesus was all that and a bag of chips, but he is the only one who was. I don't think that most people really stop and think about what Idolatry mean.
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 10:24:03 PM »

The one thing that came to my mind when i read the thread title was that,

'The bible says alot of things, but that doesn't make them true.'

Only God's Word is Truth =]

God bless,

Alex

The point of my thread was to try to understand the place of the prophets. Some seem to think that a prophet is someone who speaks/walks righteously?  To me the only person who ever talked/walked righteously was Jesus. What Ray said about Prophesy is true(If it is inspired, it’s prophesying.  Prophesying does not mean solely predicting the future.  Any inspired teaching, singing or writing is prophesying.), but does that mean that the person speaking it is righteous, or just a chosen vessel?


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UncleBeau

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 11:19:43 PM »

I don't see why adding a bag of chips to Jesus makes any difference.  ;D
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2007, 04:55:05 PM »

I don't see why adding a bag of chips to Jesus makes any difference.  ;D
you mean not everyone love chip? ??? ;D
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Beloved

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2007, 08:43:05 PM »

Are you a follower of Christ?. I cannot tell from the title of your topic or from your posts. 

Jesus was asked
(Mat 19:17 REV)  And, he, said unto him-Why dost thou question me concerning that which is good? There is, One, that is good! But, if thou desirest, into life, to enter, be keeping the commandments.

Almost all the people that God called to be His servants were imperfect and they all knew it. Perhaps the people who heard them or those who read their writings were impressed and perhaps even envious of their calling. I do not see one of the prophetsever exalting himself. They saw themselves as servants.
 
Jesus himself took on the human flesh to be The Servant
Phi 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

It seemed that the apostles and diciples all constantly referred to themselves as His servants

Rom 14:4  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

I am not aware the God created any scum...but I know that we are all wretched sinners.    He created ALL of the vessels. It seems that you are struggling with some issue and I do not understand why you feel the need to degrade these writers and add snide terms like "chips etc. I do not see the love of the brethern there.

We all need to 'learn' to be humble and grateful what role we have been given.  I sense a bit of the spirit of Miriam when she resented Moses's position. I do not think anyone at BT forum thinks that the prophets in the bible were Super Saints..or believed that they achieved righteousness. They were chosen by God for His purpose and we also know from scripture
 
1Co 1:28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are:

We therfore need to be watchful
2Ti 2:24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient.

1Co 8:2  And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Col 3:15  And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Beloved
 
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musicman

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2007, 09:26:29 PM »

I also don't understand your choice for a title of this thread.  If the prophets were scum, what does that make us?  We should be thankful that we have such an appolgetic tool as the prophets and the people of God written about in the scriptures.  If I were to make up a fake god for the purpose of financial gain, I would make sure that those chosen of my fabled god were flawless (sinless).  The short sighted look at the sins of Moses, Abraham and such as putting God in a flawed condition.  This only shows how perfectly righteous our God is and that only God can achieve perfection at this time.  Again, the sins spoken of by God's people only goes to show that these things probably were not made up.


By the way, God did create scum.
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sonofone

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2007, 09:41:26 PM »

I agree with the sentiment of others. No offence to you RV,but this post was not well crafted.Every time I see the heading,I cringe a little. I get the point,I just don't like the package it's wrapped in. I wish we could press delete and start over again.
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2007, 10:32:24 PM »

I also don't understand your choice for a title of this thread.  If the prophets were scum, what does that make us?  We should be thankful that we have such an appolgetic tool as the prophets and the people of God written about in the scriptures.  If I were to make up a fake god for the purpose of financial gain, I would make sure that those chosen of my fabled god were flawless (sinless).  The short sighted look at the sins of Moses, Abraham and such as putting God in a flawed condition.  This only shows how perfectly righteous our God is and that only God can achieve perfection at this time.  Again, the sins spoken of by God's people only goes to show that these things probably were not made up.


By the way, God did create scum.

That is my point the prophets were no better then any one else. they were just human.

Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matthew 19:25
When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"

The disciples got it.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 10:34:13 PM by rvhill »
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2007, 10:39:54 PM »

Are you a follower of Christ?. I cannot tell from the title of your topic or from your posts. 


Dues this answer your question? Jesus is the way and only way!


How can I be putting the prophets down by calling them scum. When it was not the prophets who are of spiritual value, but their Prophesy.
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rvhill

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Re: Prophets are the scum of the earth, the bible says so.
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2007, 10:50:09 PM »

Prophets were human spokesmen of God.

Where does it say in scripture that Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. are prophets?

Craig

Acts 1:16
and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus—


Acts 2:25 David said about him: " 'I saw the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.

Hebrews 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." [ Psalm 95:7,8]


Those were the verse off the top of my head which speak of David's prophecy. The other three also spoke or did prophecy, but I can't remember any verse off the top of my head right now.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 10:52:54 PM by rvhill »
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Craig

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Re: Prophets are just people, the bible says so.
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2007, 11:39:41 PM »

Not wishing to argue.  David was a king, a great man after God's own heart, he is credited with the Psalms.  But he was not called a prophet, (that I'm aware of).  Samuel and Nathan, I believe, where the prophets of king David, and Nathan of his son Solomon too.

Craig
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Beloved

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Re: Prophets are just people, the bible says so.
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2007, 12:27:33 AM »

How can I be putting the prophets down by calling them scum. When it was not the prophets who are of spiritual value, but their Prophesy

You are showing yourself as an self righteous judge who is neither humble nor loving. Jesus never spoke to any sinner in that manner.

Your semantics about their prophesies does not change the fact that your love of the brethern is not sincere ( from sincere= without wax...a trick they used to conceal crack in their pots.)
 
Jesus did recognize a viper and a hipocrit and called them when he saw them. Even Satan was able to quote scripture. You say Jesus is the way the only way......  BUT .......If you do not obey God's command then you are not following Jesus

Your fruits show us who you are

1Jo 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1Jo 4:21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1Jo 4:16  And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Eph 5:2  And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor.

Rom 13:10  Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Rom 12:10  Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another;

Joh 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another
.

Mar 12:31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I want to thank you for showing me that I can truely and honestly say that I still love you .....even when you say these kinds of things about any person    .....The only reason I can this is

 Eph 2:10  For I am his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that I should walk in them


Beloved





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