bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS  (Read 7804 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Chris R

  • Guest
HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« on: November 24, 2007, 10:38:52 AM »

AMERICA—A CHRIST-LIKE NATION OR A "CHRISTIAN" NATION?


"HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS, and cry; and wail yourselves in the ashes you principal [leaders] of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished: and you shall fall like a pleasant vessel. And the shepherds shall have no way to flee [no more {Heb: ‘refuge’} for their soul], nor the leaders of the flock to escape. A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling [wailing] of the leaders of the flock, shall be heard: for the Lord has spoiled [plundered] their pasture. He has forsaken His covert, as the lion because of the fierceness of the oppressor [‘injury, fraud, distress, unjust gain, cruelty, extortion,’] (Jer. 25:34-38).

What do you see here?

Chris R

Logged

rjsurfs

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2007, 11:42:17 AM »

I see, "Lucifer, you shepherds, and cry..."  Ok, just kidding!   :D

I think you summarized this pretty well in your Tophet post...
Quote
God will punish ALL NATIONS, but the Christian Nations will be the first to fall.  First God punishes His people, and then He punishes those He used as a club in His hand to punish His people. Few will take this warning seriously—what about YOU?

We often read or talk about judgement beginning at the house of God:

1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

BUT, this verse in Jeremiah and others... I am thinking they point to those "claiming" to be God's people... and most specifically those leading these self proclaimed people.  I fear that this country I live in, the U.S. is in for much punishment as this country has "claimed" to be a Christian nation.  And as Ray has pointed out about Christian leaders you can apply this to our government officials as well that:

Isa 30:9  That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Isa 30:10  Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:


Personally, I feel that I live in a very wicked nation... led by a very wicked government.  That is my opinion... it may be naive and I admit to not having first hand knowledge or experience living elsewhere... I tend not to believe everything I hear on the news regarding any nation.

This paper on the Towers is admittedly one I have studied the least... so I'm glad you brought it up Chris... The wife and I will go through this one again as it has been awhile... but these are terrifying prophecies.  I pray that we may "overcome"... and while:

Heb 10:31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

we know that the process is about bringing ALL to salvation.

Bobby
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 11:43:32 AM by Bobby Proctor »
Logged

Chris R

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2007, 12:05:37 PM »

Hi Bob,

I agree, this article is hard to get my brain around, also it is very facinating, I dont see much commentary on the subject, but i'm sure others have some insight on what is written.

ARE WE ISREAL?...is the Greatist Nation on Earth [America], in this prophecy?

YES, it is, And YES we are! " The Lord your God will set you on high ABOVE ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH."(Deut 28 1-3)

Israel was NEVER "...on high above all nations of the earth!"

And just who is HIGH ABOVE ALL Nations on Earth?

Who is the "Most powerful nation on earth?"

WE ARE! the United States Of America!




Chris R





Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2007, 03:57:50 PM »

Hello Chris R

If we observe this scripture with the techniques given to us in http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD.

This may at first glance appear to be the most difficult rout, but I believe it is the wisest one. So, on this basis, taking step one from the first of the twelve God given Truths to understand His Word, quote "First is the physical and then comes the spiritual."

Do you perhaps think that the USA is the PHYSICAL and perhaps BABYLON or FREE MASONS or ILLUMINATIE, or PAGANISM or CALVINISM  or any other FALSE TEACHING is the SPIRITUAL?

What I see is that when Jesus returns the earth and the earthly systems will be as in the days of Noah which will be dark wicked days of apostasy such as the world has never seen.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
Logged

Chris R

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 09:45:26 AM »

Hiya Arcturus

AS for the prophecy of Israel is concerned, there are many layers in the scriptures that speak about what the true Israel might be.

I think modern day Christendom would have us believe that the real Israel of prophecy is over in the middle east.

"The Lord your God will set you on high ABOVE ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH."
[Deut 28:1]

So, if ancient Israel, historic Israel, and today's State of Israel, was not and is not, "above all nations of the earth," then who is above all? America is! [Ray Smith]

So in the final analysis when the scriptures speak of Israel in prophecy, do these scriptures speak about the democracies of America and Europe?

I find it fascinating to contemplate, Paul's choice of words, "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect [God is not contradicting here]. For they are NOT all Israel, which are Israel. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children, but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the FLESH, these are NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: but the children of the PROMISE ARE counted for the seed" (Rom. 9:6-8).

There are volumes to be discovered in these articles, we need to look no further than our own back yard to see such prophecy come to pass.

Chris R









Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 12:47:17 PM »


Hello Chris R

 So, if ancient Israel, historic Israel, and today's State of Israel, was not and is not, "above all nations of the earth," then who is above all? America is!

It is good to see this quote from Ray again. So when are you coming to South Africa :D ;D only kidding. I know God is in control of the Nations and where we are all living. My husband really enjoys Miami and yes not to trivialise what you have said, indeed the scriptures have many layers. For me Gods Word is multi dimensional that in summation is one Truth.

You ask : when the scriptures speak of Israel in prophecy, do these scriptures speak about the democracies of America and Europe?

One thing I am pretty sure of, is that man's inhumanity to man will be revealed such as never seen before in the unveiling of the beast. Then Christ will come again and will shorten those days for the sake of the Elect.

How this will occur I do not know. Sufficient is the evil of the day and I pray for endurance and blessing to escape what will come upon the world.

I see your point I think, about what you find so fascinating to contemplate about Paul saying "For they are NOT all Israel, which are Israel." do you think this is a witness to the fact that many are called and few are chosen. Many are the children of the slave woman and few of the promise?

You are so right and I appreciate your observation that : we need to look no further than our own back yard to see such prophecy come to pass.

I with my precious family living here in this part of the world, do see apostasy and wickedness on unprecedented levels happening right before our eyes. For comfort your words remind me that this is prophecy coming TO PASS. This is times of testing faith and proving endurance found only in HIM.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 02:00:45 PM »

AMERICA—A CHRIST-LIKE NATION OR A "CHRISTIAN" NATION?


"HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS, and cry; and wail yourselves in the ashes you principal [leaders] of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished: and you shall fall like a pleasant vessel. And the shepherds shall have no way to flee [no more {Heb: ‘refuge’} for their soul], nor the leaders of the flock to escape. A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling [wailing] of the leaders of the flock, shall be heard: for the Lord has spoiled [plundered] their pasture. He has forsaken His covert, as the lion because of the fierceness of the oppressor [‘injury, fraud, distress, unjust gain, cruelty, extortion,’] (Jer. 25:34-38).

What do you see here?

Chris R



Hi Chris,

I can see the beginning of the end of those who would preach the demonic eternal torment doctrine as they provide a get out of hell card for the low, low, price of a weekly 10% "donation" made to them!

This insidious dual message as well as the sickening, carnal "prosperity preaching" that knows nothing of gaining spiritual treasure above but only temporal earthly treasure that appeals to the base, natural man. The people are not guiltless in this either, even though it is the preachers (shepherds) that commit the greater sin the followers (sheep) are also complicit as they want to believe it is their own decisions and works that "save" them even though these "works" rarely include searching the Word of God on their own, seeking that One on one relationship with Christ in us.

About one third of all so called charitable donations $97,000,000,000 (that's right 97 billion) are made to churches each year in America, how much of that is motivated by this extortion or message that to stay out of eternal torture you must pay real dollars, once this wickedness truly comes to light (it is slowly being revealed) the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

Even though Jesus taught that we are not to be of this world we see churches of every denomination allign themselves with this or that political institution, whether liberal or conservative, pro war hawk or peaceful dove these "shepherds" bring the world to the flock to promote whatever the world's flavor of the day is, or endorse some candidate or another that agrees with their world view, this focus on worldly things does not please God, especially from those that are preaching and teaching in His name.


Jer 29:8  For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
 
Jer 29:9  For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.

2Pe 2:3  And through covetousness4124 shall they with feigned4112 words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

covetousness; G4124

πλεονεξία
pleonexia
pleh-on-ex-ee'-ah
From G4123; avarice, that is, (by implication) fraudulency, extortion: - covetous (-ness) practices, greediness.


feigned; G4112

πλαστός
plastos
plas-tos'
From G4111; moulded, that is, (by implication) artificial or (figuratively) fictitious (false): - feigned.

Here is an interesting article (Wall Street Journal) in regard to tithing,

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119576921737201375.html

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 02:09:49 PM »


As Joe states, Even though Jesus taught that we are not to be of this world we see churches of every denomination allign themselves with this or that political institution, whether liberal or conservative, pro war hawk or peaceful dove these "shepherds" bring the world to the flock to promote whatever the world's flavor of the day is, or endorse some candidate or another that agrees with their world view, this focus on worldly things does not please God, especially from those that are preaching and teaching in His name.

I think the handwriting is on the wall, but only for those who have eyes to see.

Dan 5:5  In the same hour the fingers of a man's hand appeared and wrote opposite the lampstand on the plaster of the wall of the king's palace; and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.
v. 6  Then the king's countenance changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his hips were loosened and his knees knocked against each other.

Dan 5:23  And you have lifted yourself up against the Lord of heaven. They have brought the vessels of His house before you, and you and your lords, your wives and your concubines, have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, bronze and iron, wood and stone, which do not see or hear or know; and the God who holds your breath in His hand and owns all your ways, you have not glorified.
v. 24  Then the fingers of the hand were sent from Him, and this writing was written.
v. 25  "And this is the inscription that was written:
       MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
v. 26  This is the interpretation of each word. MENE: God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it;
v. 27  TEKEL: You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting;
v. 28  PERES: Your kingdom has been divided, and given to the Medes and Persians."
v. 30  That very night Belshazzar, king of the Chaldeans, was slain.

Rev 17:4  The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
v. 5  And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
v. 6  I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Rev 18:3  For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."
v. 4  And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
v. 8  Therefore her plagues will come in one day--death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

cjwood

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 04:00:55 PM »

thanks for the web link to the article on tithing in the wall street journal joe.  all i can say is thank God that He has shown us the truth about tithing.  the section quoting the one lady who used to be a member of hagee's house of harlots made me so angry (again) at how hagee and his cohorts are deceiving sooooooooo many people.  but then again i am caused to remember that even john hagee is part of God's plan.  anyway, thanks for the link. it blows me away that $97billion was received in "tithing".  also had to laugh outloud after reading the quote from the one fella who said if people only started giving 2.5% rather than 10% how would they pay the electric bill, etc. echoes statements from ray's tithing paper about how paul and the other apostles actually had jobs outside of their teaching the gospel.  the more i read from the article, the more i truly understood how the things ray has been shown by God are indeed coming to pass.

your sister in Him,
claudia
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2007, 04:19:04 PM »

Joe

That was brilliant. THANK YOU.

Imagine if the back tax has to be collected on $97 Billion!

Will this be the way that the Beast turns on the Whore of Babylon?

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
Logged

gmik

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 04:48:58 PM »

One would think that 97 billion would have gone a long way to curing some societal ills!!  No wonder the church is barely a blip on America's radar screen.
Logged

Chris R

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 07:44:59 AM »

Hiya Joe

I see the same things brother! There seems to be no shame left for these would be charletons, and peddlers of the gospel. As Ray has stated, Make no mistake about it: There will be hell to pay in the years ahead. Our sins have reached to high heaven, and our leaders fiddle while our great spiritual leaders "speak unto us SMOOTH things and prophesy DECEIT"

Howl you shepherds!

Peace

Chris R
Logged

Truth101

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2007, 10:59:04 AM »

Joe

That was brilliant. THANK YOU.

Imagine if the back tax has to be collected on $97 Billion!

Will this be the way that the Beast turns on the Whore of Babylon?

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

Great sight on that. It just may be what happens. Just lately I have seen so much concerning governments getting involved and getting court orders to have pastors of maga churches give accounts of all income and spending and believed church members have a right to know where their money is going. Imagine if they find some illegal actions have taken place what might happen legally. It is quite possible for back taxes to be collected. This is for the top 6 or 7 maga churches. You can be assured if funds have been misused there will be outcry all over the US and Canada for more investigation.

Amazing thought.

God Bless, Dave
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2007, 05:56:10 PM »

Hi Dave,

This is an interesting development isn't it? Could it be the beginning of this prophecy being fulfilled worldwide?


Rev 17:15  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
 
Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
 
Rev 17:17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
 
Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 
Logged

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 07:10:39 AM »

*not allowed*

sort of along these same lines.....the Super Christian Christmas Card that Bush sent out this year...

I tend to cringe a good deal these days when I see these things being done "in the name of Jesus".....its an automatic response now....if we are claiming to be "God's people"...we should BE God's people! Well...we have to live and learn, right?

Joyce
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 08:07:29 AM by Chris R »
Logged

kweli

  • Guest
Re: HOWL, YOU SHEPHERDS
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 07:14:35 AM »

Hi all

I've just read an article in a magazine titled "The business of God". Thought I'd share the toned-down version http://free.financialmail.co.za/07/1221/cover/coverstory.htm. The complete version of this is much better as it break it down to how all religions in South Africa 'operate'.

My colleague whose mother owns a christian church said it is 'fair' that we give physical material abundantly to those who give us spiritual food for that will always keep us full. What a way to put it.

Check out the image of a hand from the heavens pointing at the money on earth...classic babylon.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli

Oh to Arcturus, this is the summarized version of the feature article. Will give you an idea of my battle  ;) 


Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.036 seconds with 22 queries.