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Author Topic: Strong delusion and confusion  (Read 10337 times)

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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Strong delusion and confusion
« on: November 30, 2007, 03:53:47 AM »

I was confronted with these verse's;

He [God] has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their [MAN'S] heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.” (Ecc. 3:11).

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" (2 Thessalonians 2:11)

Followed by this verse;

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace"

Now this on the surface appears to be a contradiction. However i do not believe God contradicts.

Can someone tell me what is going on? Am i miss understanding the versus?

God is not the author of confusion. Check!

God puts obscurity in mans heart = confusing them?

God sending strong delusion to believe a lie = confusing them?

Whats going on? lol. I know i could be mis understanding what obscurity means, and what strong delusion means but can someone help me out here. Throw a dog a bone or something :P

Thanks in advance to all who can lend a hand.

God bless,

Alex
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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 07:48:10 AM »

Hi Alex

The word [author] is not in this scripture, actually it has been left out in many translations.


KJV:  1Cr 14:33  For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Anytime you see brackets [....] the word was not in the manuscripts.

Check out these translations:

NLT: For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the other churches.

RSV: For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints

Young: for God is not [a God] of tumult [A disorderly commotion or disturbance], but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

But God is surely the author of our salvation [Heb 5:9]

Hope this helps

Chris R
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 07:50:58 AM by Chris R »
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 10:33:47 AM »


Hi Alex,

2Th 2:11  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

delusion
G4106
planē - objectively fraudulence; subjectively a straying from orthodoxy or piety: - deceit, to deceive, delusion, error.

1Cor 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

confusion
G181
akatastasia - instability, that is, disorder: - commotion, confusion, tumult.

confuse : to make mentally unclear or uncertain; also: jumble syn muddle, befuddle, addle, fluster 

When you look at the meanings of the words they are not the same word.  God caused them to be deceived or to believe an untruth.  They are not confused in this state of deception, most are very clear in their beliefs.  All mankind are deceived. It is only by receiving the Holy Spirit that this deception is removed.

Rev 18:23   for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.

Tit 3:3  For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
v. 4  But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
v. 5  not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
v. 6  whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 03:45:14 PM »

Alright thank you very much kat and Chris.

Anyone have any other thoughts they like to add? I would appreciate it, don't be shy =]

You have helped clear up MY CONFUSION [pun intended :P] but i'd like to see if anyone else wants to add to this.

God bless,

Alex
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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 10:52:46 PM »

If God sends "strong delusion" on someone, would this not mean that the one who is then "deluded", not ALSO, confused? One may not THINK or FEEL that he/she is "confused" (unstable, etc), but does that mean that they are not actually confused?

Perhaps it isn't literally God that MAKES one confused or deluded (strong delusion), but instead he sends an evil spirit to do it?

Judges 9:22-23 After Abimelech had governed Israel three years, God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.


I'm not being dogmatic...just thinking :)

Jeremy

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jER

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 10:55:50 PM »

Anyone have any other thoughts they like to add? Why not!

Scriptures from The Concordant Literal New Testament:

1 Corinthians 14:33
33  For God is not for turbulence, but peace, as in all the ecclesias of the saints.


Turbulence: A state of violent disturbance and disorder.
Disorder: A disturbance of the peace, and of order – Babel…

 "A free-for-all"…

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11   "And therefore God will be sending them an operation of deception, for them to believe the falsehood,  12  that all may be judged who do not believe the truth,…"

Deception: A misleading falsehood (also used to hide secret information).
(i.e. falseness; untruth; imposition, imposture; fraud, deceit, guile; fraudulence, lying, misrepresentation, mendacity, perjury, forgery, invention, fabrication, faithlessness, infidelity) - a Judas kiss, betrayal…

"And the less they understand; the more they admire this sleight of hand."

This is just another perspective for consideration:

"Order is Heaven's first law" - order from disorder!


In His Wisdom
JER
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skydreamers

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 01:50:32 AM »

Alex, for what it's worth, this is my take...it is the man of sin inside us (a part of us) that is deluded and confused, but the Christ in us (God) is never confused...It is Christ in us that separates the goats (confused,deluded) in us from the sheep (that which is righteous through Christ in us).  If you begin to see us as God sees us, fractionally, than you can reconcile these scriptures in my opinion. 

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man (the Christ in us)
Romans 7:22

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish (the man of sin), yet the inward man (the Christ in us)  is renewed day by day.
2 Corinthians 4:16

Who can search out our crimes? We have thought out a cunningly conceived plot." For the inward mind and heart of a man are deep!
Psalms 64:6

Therefore if any man (of sin who is confused and deluded in us) be in Christ (mesh into that which is righteous that is in us [Christ in you]), he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17

And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation
2 Corinthians 5:18

Peace to you,

Diana
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 10:04:19 AM »

This an interesting thread.  It is a great example of how we are to consider the "sum of God's word".

God is the author of everything.  Good, bad, or indifferent.  The greatest things that happen to the worst things that happen, God is author of it all.  Just as the verse that says God is the God of the living and not the dead.  God is the God of all. 

When we are in the midst of this "sad travail" that God has put us in, it is confusing.  He has placed us under the great deceiver, Satan, who is the God of this world.  We are confused and torn between the doctrines of Bablyon.  When God opens our eyes and ears to the truth, then we can see the truth.  We become his treasured possession and begin to see clearly.  We see the kingdom of heaven which is not confusing.  Then He is our God and not the God of confusion.

CIY
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M_Oliver

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 10:58:13 AM »

I was confronted with these verse's;

He [God] has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their [MAN'S] heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.” (Ecc. 3:11).

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" (2 Thessalonians 2:11)

Followed by this verse;

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace"

Now this on the surface appears to be a contradiction. However i do not believe God contradicts.

Can someone tell me what is going on? Am i miss understanding the versus?

God is not the author of confusion. Check!

God puts obscurity in mans heart = confusing them?

God sending strong delusion to believe a lie = confusing them?

Whats going on? lol. I know i could be mis understanding what obscurity means, and what strong delusion means but can someone help me out here. Throw a dog a bone or something :P

Thanks in advance to all who can lend a hand.

God bless,

Alex

Ecclesiastes 3:11 is quite different in Rotherham, Young and J.P. Green's Interlinear:


Everything, hath he made beautiful in its own time,—also, intelligence, hath he put in their heart, without which men could not find out the work which God hath wrought, from the beginning even unto the end. (Ecclesiastes 3:11 Rotherham)


The whole He hath made beautiful in its season; also, that knowledge He hath put in their heart without which man findeth not out the work that God hath done from the beginning even unto the end.
(Ecclesiastes 3:11 YLT)

H3605{Everything} H6213{He has made} H3303{beautiful} H6256{in its time}.  H1571{Also}
H5769{eternity} H5414{He has set} H3820{in their heart} H1097{without} H834{which} H3808{not}
H4672{can find out} H120{man} H4639{the work} H6213{that makes} H430{God} H7218{from the beginning}. (J.P. Green Interlinear)

It is interesting how all three include the "without which" which to me means something is given.  The big problem is the translation of H5769.  We know it erroneous to translate it "eternity" but I can't figure out how the others get "intelligence" and "knowledge" out of the word.

The HOT+ Strongs on esword is even a little bit different in number of words.  This might be a good one for Ray to help with.

Mark








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rjsurfs

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 11:12:11 AM »

Hello All,

When I read this thread I also thought about "chaos" that we have discussed in another topic recently.

jER touched on this:
Quote
Order is Heaven's first law" - order from disorder!

Gen 1:2 Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water.

And God continues to bring chaos into order... I thought it was interesting that one of Webster's statements within a definition of order is: Good order is the foundation of all good things.

CIY said:
Quote
When we are in the midst of this "sad travail" that God has put us in, it is confusing.  He has placed us under the great deceiver, Satan, who is the God of this world.  We are confused and torn between the doctrines of Bablyon.  When God opens our eyes and ears to the truth, then we can see the truth.  We become his treasured possession and begin to see clearly.

We know there is order... God's plan is right on schedule regardless of our state of confusion.  As God does not experience confusion and all that he does brings chaos into order... so even man's temporary state of being "deceived" is part of God's plan (therefore purposeful) to bring all into order... whether we are confused by it or not.

Bobby
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 01:38:42 PM »

Interesting topic and like everything else it leads us back to Christ and His purpose for us and in us, almost a year ago we had a topic going in regard to the chaos, void, etc.

Here is the link if anyone wants to review it;

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2915.0.html

His Peace to you,

Joe
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2007, 02:33:29 PM »

I believe this is the explaination that you are seeking Alex. This is no small bone either! Enjoy :D ;D

Quoting what Ray teaches from http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
GOD DID NOT PUT ‘ETERNITY’ IN THE HEART OF MANKIND

Next we read in verse 11:

“…He set the world in their heart…”

Which a few translations render even worse as

“…He set eternity in their heart…”

Then we are told that the reason for setting the “world” or “eternity” in their heart is:

“…so that no man can find out the work that God makes…”

There is absolutely no way to understand this Scripture as it is translated in the King James and some other modern English Versions. Let’s see if we can get some clarification on this phrase from a few other translations:

The New Revised Standard Version: “He has made everything suitable for its time…”

The New American Bible: “He has made everything appropriate to its time…”

A New Translation by James Mottatt: “He assigned each to its proper time, but for the mind of man He has appointed mystery…”

Concordant Literal Old Testament: “He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart…”

Some of you may be asking, “Well, how are these translations any better?” Well, they are better—much better.

A little help from Strong’s Concordance:   As we have seen above, the word translated “world” and “eternity” by some translations, is rendered as “mystery” and “obscurity” by others, and it is taken from the Hebrew word olam. Here is what we read in Strong’s:

“#5769, olam, from #5956; prop. concealed.”

So “mystery” or “obscurity” are certainly very close to this definition.

Next notice the last verse of the last chapter in Ecclesiastes:

“For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil” (Ecc. 12:14).

The word translated “secret” here is the Hebrew word alam. And here is what we read in Strong’s: #5956; a prim. root; to veil from sight, i.e. conceal.”

The first definition of #5760, olam is concealed; and #5760, olam is taken from #5956, alam and its definition is veil or conceal.

I went through this slightly technical explanation to prove to you the real meaning of this verse. The understanding of this verse will greatly assist our understanding of the Sovereignty of God and man’s absence of anything akin to a “free will” which could operate independently from God.

Let’s read the last version of this verse again:

“He [God] has made everything fitting [not ‘beautiful’] in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.”  (Ecc. 3:11).

So God has made everything that there is (even though much of it is evil, ugly, and NOT ‘beautiful,’) fitting, proper, appropriate, and suited for its own season, “but” or “however”—here comes a counter proposal, if you will. So God makes EVERYTHING proper and appropriate for His plan, however…. BUT, “…He has put OBSCURITY in their hearts…” so that, or in order that, they CANNOT know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call “life.” What a spiritual revelation!

We have hundreds of Scriptures that verify the fact that God does do according to His plan and intention, always, and everywhere, but there are few verses as this verse which tells us specifically how He had HID [concealed, obscured] this marvelous operation from the eyes of carnal humanity as this verse does.

But Jesus Christ can set us free from the carnal mind, and give us spiritual discernment, and increase our knowledge, and make us wise so that we can understand. Here then is the revelation of a major mystery:

God uses mankind with his “obscured heart” to do all of His intentions without mankind every consciously knowing that God is working His purpose through them—“so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end.”

THE KING OF ASSYRIA’S OBSCURED HEART
VERSUS THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD

Last time I said that I would show you in the Scriptures an example where God tells us that He uses people to do His will, but that the one being used doesn’t know it, but rather thinks that he himself is doing the choosing and making the decisions and carrying out the intentions of his heart all according to his own presumed free will, whereas God says that it is He, and not the person being used, Who is in total control of the one being used.

Isaiah 10:5-17:

“O Assyrian, the rod of Mine anger, and the staff in their hand is Mine indignation. I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of My wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

Howbeit HE means not so, neither does HIS heart [his ‘obscured’ heart—Ecc. 3:11] think so; but it is in HIS heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. For he says, Are not MY princes altogether kings…

As my hand has found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria; Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord has performed His whole work [at the hands of the Assyrians] upon Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria and the glory of his high looks.

For he says, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by the wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man: And my hand has found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathers eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.

Shall the ax [king of Assyria] boast itself against him that hews therewith [God]? Or shall the saw [king of Assyria] magnify itself against Him that saws with it [God] as if the rod [king of Assyria] should shake itself against them that lift it up [God], or as if the staff [king of Assyria] should lift up itself, as if it were no wood [but rather something with free will and the power of self-determinism].

Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle it burning like the burning of a fire. And the light of Israel shall be for fire, and His Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day”

That section of Scripture is pretty much self-explanatory. This is a perfect example where God fills in the whys and wherefores of how He operated and worked with the king of Assyria to punish His people, Israel.

But this is also how God works with all kings and presidents, and heads of corporations, and heads of families, and all humanity. God “…works ALL according to the counsel of His Own will.” But just like the King of Assyria, not so is all humanity thinking in THEIR heart. They don’t believe that God uses them on a daily basis just as He did with the King of Assyria. That’s because:

“He [God] has made everything FITTING in its season; However, He has put OBSCURITY in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does from the beginning to the end.” (Ecc. 3:11). 

What an amazing Scripture. Imagine a preacher ever giving a sermon on a Scripture as “OBSCURE” as this?

Back in Gen. 50:20, we have another excellent example of how God put “obscurity” into the hearts of Joseph’s brothers. They, like the Assyrian King, had one plan in their hearts, while God was using them for His plan—a totally different plan: 

“And Joseph said unto them [his brothers], Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.”

Did Joseph understand in his “obscured” heart that it was GOD sending him to Egypt to do His will? No. Did the King of Assyria understand in his “obscured” heart that it was God sending him to Jerusalem to do His will? No. Does Christendom understand in their “obscured” hearts that it is God sending them to deceive the world and to blaspheme His name through their evil doctrines? No.

“The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers [rillets—small brooks] of water:  He turns [directs] it whithersoever he will [desires]” (Prov. 21:1).

It is not in a king to direct his ways, neither is it in ALL MANKIND to direct his steps:

“O Lord, I know that the way of man [Heb: ‘Adam, a human, mankind] is NOT in himself [or in his presumed free will] it is not IN man [‘not in MANKIND’] that walks to direct his steps”  (Jer. 10:23).

If mankind cannot direct his own steps: Who then does direct his “steps?”

“Man’s goings [Heb: ‘STEPS’] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).

All is OF God.
.
.
.
God does not say He will punish the King of Assyria for killing and slaughtering, or pillaging and plundering. It was God Himself who gave to him:

“…a CHARGE to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.” (Ver. 6).

God is not going to punish the king for doing these things.

Well, why then does God find fault with Him:

“Thou [you reading this paper right now…] will say then unto me, ‘WHY DOES He [God] yet find fault' [with the King of Assyria or ANYONE who merely does what God Himself has supernaturally INTENDED for them to do?] For [or ‘because’] who has [EVER] resisted His [GOD’S] WILL [Gk: boulema ‘resolve, intention, or PURPOSE.” This word is never translated “will” and is used but one other time in Acts, translated: ‘purpose.’]”

God tells us that the Assyrian did only what He Himself intended for him to do. Paul, likewise, assures us that no one ever has or can go against God’s “intention or purpose.”  How then is God justified in punishing the King of Assyria or anyone else for doing what God “intended” for them to do? The answer lies in the HEART of mankind. God said that He would punish “the fruit of his ARROGANT HEART”
[/b] Unquote

If you need more, there is more! ;D

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 02:48:39 PM by Arcturus »
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 02:56:39 PM »

Thank you all for the wonderful insight! Thank you arcturus for the quote from ray. I really appreciate it everyone.

I think i understand now and i believe there is truth to every insight you guys have offered, though some might approach it at a different angle.

What i see now is that God is NOT of confusion, as in God's kingdom is not of confusion, there is nothing in it confusing, it is holy, it is pure, it is clean, it is good, it is mighty, it is God's Kingdom. Unlike man's where there might be chaos, disorder, destruction, death, sadness, weeping etc... God's is not like this.

So God doesn't say He won't persay deliberately send people down the wrong path but that He Himself and His kingdom are in order as jer said, rather than disorder, in man's kingdom.

Is what i said sounding better now? I think im on the right path now.

God's kingdom = Order [not confusion]

Man's = disorder [confusion and chaos]

God bless,

Alex
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2007, 03:14:06 PM »

Hello Alex

I think you are seeing His Light :) God does not make anyone sin. We sin because our hearts are arrogant, unbelieving, deaf and blind until God reveals His Mighty Sovereign Loving Self. Why? Rom 8 : 21 Because the creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of HIM.....(God) :)

BELIEF, adherence, trusting and leaning on the false teaching of Free will is one of the fruits of an arrogant willful unconverted heart. We all begin with hearts of such stone!

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 03:17:05 PM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2007, 05:30:03 PM »

Here are some more teachings that I believe have some bearing on this important topic.

http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html

The Bible doesn’t say that man doesn’t have a HEART. It doesn’t say that he doesn’t have a MIND. It doesn’t say that he can’t THINK. It doesn’t say he can’t make CHOICES. It doesn’t say he doesn’t have a WILL. It doesn’t say he can’t carry out his will through his thoughts, choices, planning, action, and deeds. What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!!   THAT’S what the Bible really says!

We are “accountable” for what comes out of our arrogant heart, but God is “responsible” for giving us such an heart in the first place.


http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html

Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:


Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 05:31:46 PM by Arcturus »
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M_Oliver

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2007, 05:41:43 PM »

Arcturus,

Thank you SO much for finding that.  Awesome!

Mark
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2007, 07:21:50 PM »


Ecclesiastes 3:11 is quite different in Rotherham, Young and J.P. Green's Interlinear:


Everything, hath he made beautiful in its own time,—also, intelligence, hath he put in their heart, without which men could not find out the work which God hath wrought, from the beginning even unto the end. (Ecclesiastes 3:11 Rotherham)


The whole He hath made beautiful in its season; also, that knowledge He hath put in their heart without which man findeth not out the work that God hath done from the beginning even unto the end.
(Ecclesiastes 3:11 YLT)

H3605{Everything} H6213{He has made} H3303{beautiful} H6256{in its time}.  H1571{Also}
H5769{eternity} H5414{He has set} H3820{in their heart} H1097{without} H834{which} H3808{not}
H4672{can find out} H120{man} H4639{the work} H6213{that makes} H430{God} H7218{from the beginning}. (J.P. Green Interlinear)

It is interesting how all three include the "without which" which to me means something is given. 


Hi Mark,

Good point that you bring up here, what do you think that "something" is that is given? The beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega? What or should I say Who is the Light which illuminates the darkness?


2Co 4:6  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

In His time any and all confusion will be replaced with the understanding that only comes with a revelation from one Source;

Isa 59:9  Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.

Before we come to a true knowledge of Christ, especially the Spirit of Christ and the Kingdom within we are stumbling around like a blind man in unfamiliar surroundings. Would he not be confused, nothing is moving around, all is in place and set up perfectly, everything would make perfect sense if only he had eyes to see.

This most certainly holds true as Arcturus brought up early in this thread, the darkness we wander in is not illuminated by the guides of Babylon;


Rom 2:19  And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
 
Rom 2:20  An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Only Christ can open our eyes and ears, showing us the Light which is Him. He does it in His own time and in every man's season.

I had a very interesting and enlightening conversation with a dear Brother in regard to this subject just recently, coincidence?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


 

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M_Oliver

  • Guest
Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2007, 09:06:49 PM »

I had a very interesting and enlightening conversation with a dear Brother in regard to this subject just recently, coincidence?

You know I know better than that Joe ;D.  This whole darned thread has got Spirit in it for sure.  I love it when God does this.  Thank you all, I had a few things "click" today.

Mark

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Chris R

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Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2007, 09:58:42 AM »

You all bring out very good points, I thought i might add a few verses that seem to enlighten me a bit.

Take a look at how this delusion was established in early man.

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.  [Ecc 8:11]

MAN WAS WARNED: "Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and DO THEM : that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. [Lev 20:22]

BUT MAN DID NOT: But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked NOT in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, [Eze 20:13]

GOD KNEW ISRAEL COULD NOT KEEP HIS LAWS OR JUDGMENTS!

So now we have a dilemma, Because sentence WAS NOT carried out speedily, the heart of the SONS of man are ALREADY set in them to do Evil!  And from this enigma, there can be NO RETURN, it is done, it cannot be undone!until Christ returns.

WHY?, Because the whole head is SICK!! EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL.

"Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head [there is] no soundness in it;" [Isa 1:5-6]

This however is only temporary, God sends this delusion, for a specified time, and then, when the judgments are in the earth, the WORLD will learn righteousness. [Isa 26:9]

Peace

Chris R
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Strong delusion and confusion
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2007, 02:23:09 PM »



Thank you for that perspective Chris.

In other words there are NO redeeming characteristics of the beast.  The beast and the world systems are corrupt and are sick getting sicker.

Our Hope is the Son of God.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

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