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Author Topic: Make me a puppet  (Read 8219 times)

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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Make me a puppet
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 10:31:54 AM »

Hi everyone

Alex and Sorin I think I know where are spiritually (uhmm, I'm not a trying to make myself clairvoyant 8)).

I think the younger you are 'dragged' to Jesus, the harder it is to remain obedient (please do not crucify me if I'm off beat). And Ecc 11: 9-10 does us the younger ones no justice as it almost suggests that being young is associated with being less obedient. I can understand why Alex would want to be a puppet without a mind. But as with everything else with me, I suggest we surrender all to the ALL-IN-ALL. To me it seems like a pretty good start.

Lately I battle with the idea of free will. Much as I understand Paul when he says I do that which I know I should not, I sometimes wonder why God would will me to keep doing wrong...it's pretty tough to digest. But from some response by Ray to a similar concern, I guess I'll take a couple of years to meditate on it until it dwells in my spirit, God-willing.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Make me a puppet
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2007, 11:22:47 AM »

Hi Everyone,

There are some really great responses from all who participated in this thread.

Kweli, I think you brought up a very germane point in regard to being in an even more difficult position while being dragged to Him as a younger person, I think of my own experience as an 18 or 19 year old, through my 20's, even into my 30's I was totally driven by my carnal desires, pleasure first, at all costs!

Some personal tragedies brought me to the SDA church at the age of 17, I had been an agnostic even antagonistic Catholic before a series of circumstances (imagine that!) brought me to a (I did not know what denomination at first) Bible study that made God and the Bible come alive to me, really for the first time.

After a few months I joined and I tried (in my own weak flesh) to keep the doctrines of the church not only physically but mentally, needless to say I was a miserable failure, I had no clue that growing in spirit required learning to hate my sins, the things I was tempted by.

Sometimes we actually have to experience the heartache and pain that sin eventually brings to us. My attempt was to try and mentally purge myself the more I tried the farther away I found myself from God. It got to the point where I just accepted the "fact" that I was headed for annihilation at Judgment (SDA's do not teach ET) and that was that. The pull of the flesh was just too strong for me to ignore and so I began to embrace and give in to my temptations rather than make a futile and agonizing attempt to abstain on my own. What a mess I made of not only my life but many others who were in my circle.

At the time I had no clue on really how to pray, or that there was nothing at all I can do on my own, I thought it was all on me to change. A recipe for spiritual failure.

Years later when I had actually stabilized (in family and society's eyes anyway) I had learned (often the very hardest way) to avoid certain things and certain situations and became relatively successful in business and in my personal life that once I was finally "there" so to speak that I began to feel that something big was missing, I had a huge hole in the core of my being that puzzled and frustrated me. This was something that I felt within never sharing it with anyone, I did not want to appear weak or that I was losing my mind.

What I am trying to say my younger Brothers is that God has begun to pull you toward Him and bless you with a better knowledge of Him than most folks ever experience in this life, He has called you into a very precious place for His divine purpose. The most important thing we have to do, whether in this age or the next is to beg God to align our will to His will, just as Jesus did.


From;


 PRAYING BY GOD’S RULES
[God’s Prayer Rules are Simple but Not Easy]

 THE GREATEST DRAMA OF THE AGES

If you like drama, then Matt. 26:36 is the place to find it. Few pay close attention to what is really going on in these few verses of Scripture. The humanity of Jesus is brought into direct conflict with the will of His God and Father. First I will jump ahead of our story slightly so that you understand the setting of this greatest of all prayers in the history of the universe. After praying for one hour Jesus returns a short way back to His Apostles and says:

"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matt. 26:41).

Was the "flesh" of Jesus any stronger than that of His apostles? No, it was the same flesh. Paul tells us that, "…there is ONE kind of flesh of men…" (I Cor. 15:39). Jesus was given this same "one kind" of flesh (John 1:14 & Rom. 1:3). And so the flesh of Jesus was just as "weak" as that of His Apostles. Jesus instructed His apostles to stay awake and pray with Him for one hour. None of them could do it. None of us could have done it. They just ate a meal and they were now sleepy (not only physically sleepy, but especially spiritually sleepy). Now back to the beginning of this great drama:

"Then comes Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and says unto the disciples, Sit you here, while I go and pray yonder [over there]. And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee [James and John] and began to be SORROWFUL, AND VERY HEAVY. Then said He unto them, My soul [His fleshly, conscious humanity, not His spirit] is EXCEEDING SORROWFUL, EVEN UNTO DEATH [spirit doesn’t die, it is our flesh that must die]. Tarry [stay] you here, and watch with Me.

And He went a little farther, and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O MY FATHER, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, LET THIS CUP [this cup of death—being beaten beyond recognition, being made sin offering, and crucified for the sins of humanity] pass from Me: NEVERTHELESS, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILL" (Matt. 26:36-39).

"And there appeared an angel unto Him from heaven, strengthening Him. And being in an agony He prayed more earnestly: and His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground" (Luke 22:43-44).

I doubt that any of us can ever fully appreciate what unfathomable human trauma and agony was taking place for those three hours in the garden that night two thousand years ago. The eternal destiny of the entire human race was at stake, and Jesus KNEW IT! And believe me, Jesus’ Father was agonizing right along with His Son:

"In all their afflictions, He [GOD] was afflicted… in His love and in His pity He redeemed them…" (Isa. 63:9).

"Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He SUFFERED" (Heb. 5:8).

And oh how Christ was suffering that night in the garden! But right there in the garden is the answer to all prayer. "O MY FATHER… nevertheless, not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL." Jesus not only prayed that way; Jesus thought that way:

"I can of Mine Own Self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not My Own will, but the WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HAS SENT ME" (John 5:30).

And again:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of HIM THAT SENT ME" (John 6:38).

Did Jesus pray as earnestly as it is possible to pray that God would "let this cup pass?" YES, He did.

Did God grant Jesus His desire to "let this cup pass?" NO, He didn’t.

But, did Jesus get His prayer answered? YES, He surely did. How so? Because Jesus’ greater desire was that His Father’s will be done, rather than "let this cup pass." This example from our Lord is the answer to answered pray and it is also the answer to unanswered prayer.

If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don’t get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always. God’s will (that is His intention for the way He has preordained everything to go), will always be done. No prayer has ever changed God’s plan or purpose in any way whatsoever. (Read my series on "free will").

Now then, if it was God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you. Either way, God’s will must be done, and if that is the greatest desire of your prayer for God’s will to be done in your life, then whether you receive some particular favor or you don’t receive it, nonetheless, YOUR PRAYER WILL BE ANSWERED.

I’m, personally, okay with that. Many of my readers may not be okay with that arrangement of things, but nevertheless, that is the way things are and that is the way things will always be—"THY will be done."

Why is this the only way that we can understand what is such a mystery to many in the Church? Because they do not believe that God is Sovereign. God’s Sovereignty is absolutely not compatible with a fabled "free" will of man. Those that argue contrary just do not understand their own arguments.

God has never made a mistake. God has never ever changed His mind. God has never been surprised by anything that anyone has ever done. God knows everything that will happen before it happens. And the only reason that God can do this is because God is Sovereign and man has no such thing as a "free will." (Don’t everyone send me Gen. 6:6 at the same time now, insisting that God does change His mind—He does NOT).

No man has ever in the history of the world received an answer to a prayer for something from God that God did not already have in His plan to give him. People hate the very thought of a God Who is totally and completely Sovereign, and the reason is simple. If God is Sovereign, then man has no free will that can thwart the sovereign foreknowledge of God. God cannot know for certain a future event if mankind possesses a power that can thwart God’s perfect foreknowledge. Not even most of the greatest minds in theology have thought this apparent enigma through. Had they given sufficient thought to this Truth of God’s Word they would not be teaching such a plethora of unscriptural and damnable heresies.

When God wants to answer someone’s prayer, the first thing He will always do is inspire (cause) that person TO PRAY. How can God answer a "prayer" if someone doesn’t "pray"? God can bless us and do favors for us, but God cannot answer our prayers, if we don’t pray. That is why I get excited when I feel inspired to pray, as I am encouraged that God is getting ready to bless or favor me in some way.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Make me a puppet
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2007, 03:26:57 PM »

growing in spirit required learning to hate my sins,

....What I am trying to say my younger Brothers is that God has begun to pull you toward Him and bless you with a better knowledge of Him than most folks ever experience in this life, He has called you into a very precious place for His divine purpose.
  quote from Joe.

BEAUTIFULLY  articulated Joe and fully seconded!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Make me a puppet
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2007, 05:36:00 AM »

Thanks a lot for your words of encouragement Joe. I guess we are indeed growing in spirit for we do hate our sins. It isnt easy though. But rereading  THE GREATEST DRAMA OF THE AGES, that fire and desire of submission and letting God work has been rekindled in me. Thanks again for those words Joe. I hope Alex picked up something to chew on with this thread.

"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matt. 26:41)

Sounds to me like part of the solution, if not the solution itself. And coming from Jesus Himself, what more can I say? Amazing how Scripture bears so much resource for us to cope with this experience called life. And it's even more amazing to know that it is all in the DIVINE PLAN.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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