Where the worm dieth not...

[Kent]

I read somewhere (i dont remember where) that there was a species of worm in the valley of Gehenna that was hard to kill.

I tried to find that reference, and back it up with more references, but google is not being friendly. All I come up with are (for the most part) cheap geocity websites that spout churchianitys' views on this. It's like they all copy and paste the exact same words. Usually with a background of menacing demons and flames...


Can anyone direct me to a source? I would appreciate any help on this.

[rjsurfs]

Hi Kent,

Ray goes over this a couple of places... quoting from his Open Letter to TBN (Letter to John Hagee)

The "ravine of hinnom" (Gehenna) was the city garbage dump in Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. And just like all garbage dumps, there were worms. The reason they didn't die out was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed them. This is not a parable. Gehenna is a real place. This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. It was burning with fire, with a daily supply of garbage, and a daily supply of worms to eat it. But if you go there today, it is not burning and there are no worms. This Gehenna is not eternal. It will be reinstituted during Christ's millennial reign, then be eliminated after His reign.

Hope that gets you in the right direction...

Bobby

[hebrewroots98]

Hi Kent,
I'm sorry that I can't help you here, but I was wondering where you are in this great big world?   We are here in W. Texas.

[Kent]

Hi Kent,

Ray goes over this a couple of places... quoting from his Open Letter to TBN (Letter to John Hagee)

The "ravine of hinnom" (Gehenna) was the city garbage dump in Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. And just like all garbage dumps, there were worms. The reason they didn't die out was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed them. This is not a parable. Gehenna is a real place. This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. It was burning with fire, with a daily supply of garbage, and a daily supply of worms to eat it. But if you go there today, it is not burning and there are no worms. This Gehenna is not eternal. It will be reinstituted during Christ's millennial reign, then be eliminated after His reign.

Hope that gets you in the right direction...

Bobby

OK, so it wasnt a particularly hardy species of worm. Maybe there is nothing to that particular species of worm. 
It (Rays' explanation) makes sense though. Thank you.

@Hebrewroots98

Illinois, for now. I am a trucker, and home is where I hang my hat

[Truth101]

Hey all,

"The "ravine of hinnom" (Gehenna) was the city garbage dump in Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. And just like all garbage dumps, there were worms. The reason they didn't die out was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed them. This is not a parable. Gehenna is a real place. This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. It was burning with fire, with a daily supply of garbage, and a daily supply of worms to eat it. But if you go there today, it is not burning and there are no worms. This Gehenna is not eternal. It will be reinstituted during Christ's millennial reign, then be eliminated after His reign."

Just one quick question:

I'm just wondering about the reinstitution of gehenna and its elimination again after Christs reign. Where can I find reference to this?  I never knew it was going to be reinstated or why it would be reinstated.

Any help is much appreciated.

Peace,
           Dave

[Deborah-Leigh]

At Christ's second coming He gathers His elect and sets up His kingdom. Twice Paul tells us that the elect will be gathered at the sound of a trumpet (I Thes. 4:16), at the last trump (I Cor. 15:52), and it is then when the saints (ALL the saints, I Thes.3:13) will receive their "rest and ease" from the trials and sorrows of this life, and Paul plainly says that this will occur: "... AT the unveiling of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His powerful messengers, in flaming fire, dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are not obeying the evangel of our Lord Jesus Christ--who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength--whenever He may be coming to be glorified in HIS SAINTS and to be marveled at in ALL WHO BELIEVE (seeing that our testimony to you was believed) IN THAT DAY"http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm

The above quote out of Ray's Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory, I believe also shows that quote : those who are not acquainted with God....shall incur the justice of eonian extermination... meaning that it will not be a forever extermination but eonian, until purification is achieved and THAT DAY is fulfilled and then Jesus turns every thing and every one over to God and God becomes all in all....

That is how I see it anyway! Ray's teachings are also Spirit and Truth

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Truth101]

Thanks Arcturus, That helps a bit.

My wife keeps asking me what is going to happen to all the children and all the babiess during the kingdom age and I just have no answer for her. I seem to be asked this question alot and find myself squirming to answer with scripture. Its quite a foggy subject for me. I have read all of rays papers but I dont seem to recall any that deal exclusively on the kingdom age. I only see just bits and pieces scattered throughout each article.

She has also asked me what happens with those who believe like us but are nowhere near the elect. Also those that dont know Jesus and those who completely reject anything to do with God and Christ.

Is this just where the "some will recieve many lashes, and some will recieve few lashes" come in?

She asked me if the kingdom age is just a period of torture for all except the elect?

I just really cant answer truthfully. I have studied my face off for these answers and im still in the dark on this.

Peace,

Dave

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hey Dave

I would not worry about not having the answers to all the questions but more about hanging onto what I have got so far and for me that exceeds the sum total of what Mystery Babylon has got to-date! 

You observe : Is this just where the "some will receive many lashes, and some will receive few lashes" come in?

I would say so yes.

You ask : She asked me if the kingdom age is just a period of torture for all except the elect?

Ray notes quote : Judgment is not reserved exclusively for the wicked, nor is it a one-sided sentence of doom. There are many problems with the orthodox teaching of judgment. Much emphasis is placed on a few Scriptures taken out of the context of all of God's counsel regarding judgment.

Judgment has both a positive and a negative side. That is judgment itself contains both. The result of the two faces of judgment, however, I am happy to report, will not perpetuate the dual masks of comedy and tragedy for all eternity, but rather a "smiley face" for all.

http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html

Learning righteousness  is rejected and hated by spiritual ******** and Babylonian wicked carnal deceiving conniving thieves and murderers who try to make God into their own image who Paul says will not inherit the Kingdom of God.  Now they might view judgment to be like Hell when in comes upon them.

Gods consuming fire will purge out all evil and wickedness.

In the end not only will all smile but all will voluntarily bow their knee to the Majesty and Glory of Christ! At this time however, more voluntarily bow their knees to sin and not to God. 

God will make all crooked paths straight and spiritually weak hearts will learn the truth and the Truth will set them free of error, evil, vanity, bondage to decay and corruption. That is good news! God will achieve this. His method is HIMSELF for God is a consuming fire!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Dave,

My wife keeps asking me what is going to happen to all the children and all the babiess during the kingdom age and I just have no answer for her.

The Scripture is not specific on this subject.  We know all that ever lived will be resurrected at the great white throne judgment (Rev 20:11-15), this will of course include children and babies.

One thing I have thought about is when Adam and Eve were created what age were they? 
It doesn't say in Rev. exactly how He will resurrect everybody, but Eze. 37 in the valley of dry bones passage, God gives a very good description of how this will be.  This makes me think of the way Adam an Eve were created.  Will the children be raised from the grave so young that they are in need of parents to take care of them?  I don't know, but it's something to think about.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[hebrewroots98]

Hi Dave,
I think that all of babies; whom died w/o knowing Yeshua will simply go before the Judgement seat of Yeshua and these babies will GLADLY and instantly receive the truth the first time they hear it.  I think that b/c  there is no age in heaven, then all will come to the same spiritual maturityl evel eventually (understanding of righteousness) and it will probably take alot longer to convince those whom have preconceived ideas about the truth... for those who understand the truth but who are not the elect; the same thing happens...it will take the white throne jusdgement to confirm what they had believed all along, which shouldnt take them long to see!  The age situation as Kat speaks of, I have no clue, but it sounds possible Kat!  

[skydreamers]

back to the worms...I am completely unknowledgable about gardening but we do have a compost in our backyard and I did some research last summer to understand how it works...it turns out that certain kinds of worms are used in composting because they eventually convert the entire contents of organic refuse into rich compost which you then put in your soil to produce wonderful plants, flowers and fruits....gardens love compost soil!!  Anyways, God whispered in my ear that this is what the "worms that dieth not" represent....they simply take this "earthen" body and turn the refuse into something that will produce fruits of the spirit!!  In a strange twist of irony our "natural" carnal flesh is "dung" (manure) for the spirit...our earthen vessels is where the Spirit within (the inner man) is being strengthened by the elements and nutrients produced by adversity....we are called:

oaks of righteousness, The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.
Isaiah 61:3

anyways...that's what God gave me....but I still suck at gardening...lol...

Peace and love,
Diana

[gmik]

Great parable Diana.  How cool.

(I suck at gardening too! )

[chuckt]

[Fedex Guy]

back to the worms...I am completely unknowledgable about gardening but we do have a compost in our backyard and I did some research last summer to understand how it works...it turns out that certain kinds of worms are used in composting because they eventually convert the entire contents of organic refuse into rich compost which you then put in your soil to produce wonderful plants, flowers and fruits....gardens love compost soil!!

Good observation!! It's easy to overlook the positive side of worms and for that matter, fire. The worms of Gehenna served an important purpose helping to break down the elements into someting useful. Its kind of gross to think about it but the alternative is worse -could you imagine a garbage dump where nothing decomposed - Yuck!!! I'm putting together a website challenging traditional Christian doctrines and make this point about fire - Fire does only two things - it consumes and it purifies. Knowing this, if hell is eternal pain and torment, why is fire used in relationship with hell if in hell nothing is consumed and nothing is purified?

[hebrewroots98]

Excellent responses Diana and Fedex!!!  Excellent point as to why fire wouldn't purify or why fire wouldnt totally burn up everything...obviously they do not want to see these obvious truths, (yet, right where God has them .)  I would be interested to see your website about this issue...when will it be up?

[rjsurfs]

Fire does only two things - it consumes and it purifies. Knowing this, if hell is eternal pain and torment, why is fire used in relationship with hell if in hell nothing is consumed and nothing is purified?

Very well said.

Bobby

[Fedex Guy]

I've written about 30 pages. It may be up within a month or so.