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Truth101:
Hi all.

I just wanted to share something that helped me with my understanding and studies.

After coming to bible truths and studying everything I could get my eyes on for the first year my mind was exploding with knowledge. The funny thing is God opened up the windows of heaven on me and poured out His spirit like I never experienced and this was just amazing but, I found myself in a rut for awhile. I had so much on my mind I couldnt get it all straight as far as seeking more understanding. I just didnt know what other questions to ask and things kinda went stale on me.
I didnt know what to do with it all. This is when I found myself going to christian forums and debating with anyone and everyone who would take a stab at me. While going through this I somehow knew this wasnt what it was about, but it was all I knew to do.

In hindsight I realize that it was a nessessary step in my coming out of babylon. If I didnt join these debates I would have less than half the understanding I have now.

My reasoning...! It is through these debates that I was challenged in many ways to prove the truth. It caused me to seek out the scriptures like never in my life to give scriptural proof of my belief. In other words I read everything Ray had to offer in literature but without diligently searching these things out my only weapon was that of another. At first al my answers seemed to be just a repeat of what Ray had spoken and nothing more.

Needless to say I got stumped quite a few times which caused me to seek as far as I could to find these answers...and I did. Everytime without fail God carried me in my studies and I would leave these people with nothing more than to insult me with name calling merely attacking my person rather than the truth that I shared with them.

I believe wholeheartedly that God used this debating method to cause me to diligently seek His truth deeper. God wants us to learn certain things in certain orders. For example He drags us from babylon by first exposing her deception by giving us truth (using Ray to do this) than He causes us to seek out those truths even deeper by whatever catalist (for me it was debating as well as many others I see). Next the purging the carnal nature from us (a life experience im sure).

For me debating helped me learn more than I would have never debating by a long shot. It caused me to gain a vast amount of understanding of the message God has given to Ray to give to us.

One more thing I must say in addition to the above before leaving this to you for discussion is, Although debating has helped me a great deal in diligently seeking and studying it stil remains that the whole debating factor is one motivated more by pride than it is by compassion on those you are debating. It is still another means in which to devour another. I have learned to share with these people instead of argue. I have also learned to be humble and slow to speak when approaching them due to their easily ruffled feathers. Infact, being human and all, I admit my feathers still get ruffled myself. Its been more than a year since debating with them. I guess I m waiting on the Lord to make me a better person when discussing with them and for the right reasons.

God bless,
               Dave

Kat:

Hi Dave,

I can see your point.  God leads us in different ways to gain knowledge of His Truth.  For you it was debating other Christains.  For me I have gained the same thing right here  :) 
When I am seeking to help someone with a question I go to the Scripture.  I do use Ray's articles a lot, because he has it already put in very good detail, the answers to questions that are ask.
But I guess there are many different ways one may be lead to study the Scriptures; questions here, debates in other forum, or discussions with a friends or family.  Whichever way God is leading you through this process of growth and learning it is for the good.
I read this Scripture just yesterday.

2Tim 2:23  But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
v. 24  And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
v. 25  in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
v. 26  and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Arthyron:
I had a very similar experience, Truth101.  I grew up in a Christian school, and it wasn't until High School (when I entered Public School) that I began to be attacked/questioned/disputed.  It was that experience that caused me to learn as much as I could about Scripture and Apologetics.  I took to debating and discussing things online, and I freely admit a lot of my debates early on were fueled with less than Godly intentions.  But the Lord did use them to teach me a lot of things, to come to much understanding, and to make a big difference.  Since then, my outlook and methodology and even the intent of my heart has changed drastically.

However I must digress in that in my experience, as long as one maintains their composure (even if the opposition becomes venomous), much good can come out of these debates.  It's certainly true that the person you're debating may retreat into themselves and refuse the advice and information you offer, but in most forums, there are a whole lot of people that are reading the topic that aren't posting in it.  I've had dozens of people from all over the world contact me outside of the forum to thank me for what I said, that they've decided to start reading Scripture again, that it made them re-think their perceptions of Christianity, etc etc.  The Lord can do some amazing things through the internet and debates, I mean, look at Bible Truths.com.  The internet is such a wonderful tool.  Just think if the internet existed in the time of Apostle Paul or even Christ and what wonders the Lord could have done. 

Anyway, there are just so many people out there that haven't taken the time to read Scripture for themselves, and are mislead by clergy, by media, by satire, by detractors.  There are so many misconceptions and faulty teachings regarding our Faith.  And if you address these misconceptions firmly but with compassion and clear demonstration of the evidence and truth, I've seen even the most staunch, militant atheists go "whoa..you know, there may be something to this Jesus thing after all." 

I agree that shouting at each other and quarreling does no one any good, and that it's something a servant of the Lord should avoid.  However, if the Lord allows you to maintain your composure and civility and compassion in your heart, there is SO much good that can come of such debates and discussions (as verses 25-26 in the passage Kat quoted say).

rjsurfs:
Yes, "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:"

Thankfully though our moderators have the wisdom to keep this forum debate free.

 :)

Bobby

Truth101:
Good posts,

Kat,
    I agree totally. One of the reasons I had to resort to debating was because there was no BT forum at that time. I had no where to go to share what I was given except family. After being a Christian for 22 years and a youth pastor for a year after learning of these truths I was exploding inside with excitement. I had to go anywhere and everywhere to proclaim :).
Not much different from the demon posessed man whom Jesus delivered went running through the streets exploding with joy over being released from his demons. He was made physically whole by Christ and he was crazy with joy. I experienced something that I was consciously waiting for literally my whole life. I say this because I was mentaly tormented as a little guy (3-4 years old on until I was roughly 18 years old. Let me explain....

When I was 3 I remember living on a farm and my dad bought me a puppy. There were a bunch of little kids maybe just a couple years older than me who decided to attempt to drown the puppy in an old rain barrel on the side of the house. My torment started at that point. They never managed to drown the dog because I climbed up the step to take the lid off the barrel to free him. I remember them yelling at me to leave it but I ignored them.

Im not going to go into a long history of violent things I witnessed in my life but I will tell you my view of people from that point on only got worse and worse. my heart was not able to tolerate this violence and cruelty so I became suicidal as I said until I was 18. I just could not understand why anyone would want to hurt another living thing wether animal or human. My mind just didnt get it. I felt so strong that if this was the way life was....I want no part of it whatsoever. I made no cries for help, no hints at my condition whatsover. And this from when I was 3 on. It wasnt until I was 15 that I could not take any more. After reading some of the bible and being told about hell and all that junk I planned and purposed to end it. It worked and I was almost gone when my mother came home a little too early and revived me.

This torment was completely lifted off me after studying bible truths. This is why the huge explosion for me. These were conscious answers I needed. I was literally set free and given those eyes I longed for to see WHY...WHY...WHY. I know the joy of that demon possessed man.

Although I am far from being made whole I now know that God gave me this very heart that was so soft it broke so early in my life only for God to later come in and prove to me that it was all His plan for me. And if I am in His plan I know he loves me and will never leave me no matter how bad things get.

Maybe I went a little too far here with an explaination but I felt an urge to give a little testimony.

Arthyron, I concur completely. Although many refused to even acknowledge truth when it was right in their face there were others who did contact me privately enquiring of the source in which I recieved this understanding. Some even asked for my email address and I spoke with them over a period of months as they also explored bible truths.com.

And yes, the quareling is not a Godly way of sharing. I have learned that when I discuss these things with others to do it in meekness and humility. It is when they see you as Christ like with words of wisdom that they will approach you. I admit at first I went in to share with a great joy but when my joy was trampled on I became vindictively hostle toward them and learned quickly that this is not the way to share the good news. When I came to understand the aggressive method didnt work at all I prayed alot and changed the way I shared with them and that is when I started getting more solid interest from them.

Its taking me alot to actually hit the post button right now because of the personal issues contained but here it goes :)

God Bless,

              Dave

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